PENSIONS (GOVERNORS OF DOMINIONS, ETC.) BILL. (Hansard, 25 June 1936)

§ THE EARL OF PLYMOUTH
My Lords, the object of this Bill is to remove certain inequalities and indeed injustices which exist in the method of assessing the pensions of Governors, and particularly Governors with previous civil service. It is a slightly complicated one and requires just a little explanation, but I assure your Lordships that I do not intend to take up much time. The present position is this. A Governor does not get a pension at the Governor's rate unless he has served as a Governor for ten years. If he has served for any time less than ten years he is granted a pension as though he had remained in the Civil Service appointment which he last held and as though he had not been promoted at all to the post of a Governor. I ought perhaps to explain that, for the purpose of assessing the pension rate, Governorships are divided into four different classes and the rate of pension is fixed according to the period of time which any particular Governor has served in any particular class or classes.
I think it is quite obvious that a system under which a Governor is not paid a pension at Governor's rates unless he has served as a Governor for ten years is contrary in spirit and in effect to the ordinary rule which regulates the granting of pensions in the public service: that is, that an officer's pension should be fixed according to the position which he held at the time of his retirement. But, apart from what I think I may call the intrinsic injustice of that system, there are certain other definite objections to it. In the first place, it tends to restrict the Secretary of State's freedom of choice in selecting Governors. By that I mean that 250 there is a tendency—I will not go further than that—for him to select those who have ten years in front of them before they reach the age of retirement. There is also a tendency to allow Governors to go on to complete ten years service for some years after they reach the retiring age when really, in the interests of the public, they probably should have retired.
To pass to the various clauses of the Bill: Clause 1 (1) alters this position, and if it becomes effective the result will be that in respect of a person who is a Governor on or after January 1 this year, if he has completed not less than three years service as a Governor and if the total period of his service as a Governor and in the permanent Civil Service amounts to not less than ten years, a pension may be paid to him at the Governor's rate. In other words, in future a civil servant, instead of having to do ten years as a Governor, has only to do three years as a Governor and ten years altogether before he can be pensioned off at the Governor's rate. The remaining subsections of this clause and the remaining clauses of the Bill deal with matters of greater detail, and I will only refer to them briefly. Clause 1 (2) provides that service as Governor-General of the Sudan shall rank for the qualifying period with ordinary civil service. Clause 1 (3) is designed to enable the present Governor-General of the Sudan, who before receiving that appointment was a Colonial Governor with previous civil service, to get the benefit of this clause in spite of the fact that he ceased to be a Governor before January 1, 1936. Without this Bill it will not be possible to give him a pension at all for his Colonial Governorship. As a matter of fact that defect in the present system is remedied by Clause 3 (1) and not by this particular subsection.
Then, Clause 1 (5) provides that the benefit of Clause 1 (1) may be extended to any Governor who retired between January 1 of this year and the date when the Bill receives the Royal Assent. That provision perhaps requires a little explanation. The point is that the Financial Resolution in connection with this Bill was introduced in another place as long ago as July of last year, and it was therefore reasonable at that time to suppose that the Bill would become law before the end of last year. As your Lordships know, certain events arose which inter- 251 fered with a smooth procedure of that kind, and as a result certain expectations had been aroused which could not nave been fulfilled unless this provision had been inserted in the Bill. The object of Clause 2 is to enable a Governor with previous Sudan civil service to be regarded as a Civil Service Governor for the purposes in view unless, of course, he happens to take his pension from the Sudan and draw it during his time of Governorship. Clause 3 (1) appears rather complicated when first read, but I think I can best explain this subsection by saying that it means that if a man who is a Colonial Governor goes on to the Governor-Generalship of the Sudan and retires from that office in circumstances in which he is eligible for pension from the Sudan, you can also assume that he is eligible for and will be granted a pension for his previous Colonial service.
I hope the House will think that I have now given sufficient explanation of this measure, and that it will be sympathetically disposed towards it. We are dealing with a class of men who have given many, and indeed the best, years of their lives in the service of the Empire, men who have often served under conditions and in climates which are bound to take full toll of health and energy. In consequence I feel certain that your Lordships will not only be prepared but will also be anxious to remove any inequalities and injustices which exist at the present time in the assessment of their pensions. I beg to move.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK
My Lords, I was very glad to hear the opening words of my noble friend who has moved the Second Reading of this Bill, and also his concluding remarks: that it was right to remove any inequalities or injustices in the assessment of the pensions of Governors, who have served the Empire so faithfully and so well. I have risen to-day to interpolate a few words and to ask His Majesty's Government to consider whether or not they would be prepared to remove another inequality and another injustice under which certain Governors suffer to-day in comparison with those who have already received or are receiving the benefits of the original Act and of the Acts of which this is an amendment. The original Act, the Pensions 252 (Governors of Dominions, etc.) Act, 1911, Section 12 (1), defines the term "Governor." It describes the particular class of official who will be entitled to receive the pension provided under the Act of 1911, as amended by the further Act of 1929, and now to be amended again to-day. That clause, Clause 12 (1), reads like this: The expression ' Governor ' means the Governor or administrator of any part of His Majesty's Dominions (exclusive of the British Islands and of British India) "— I ask your Lordships to mark those words especially," British India "— or of a British Protectorate, and includes the High Commissioner of Cyprus, and the expression ' Governorship ' shall be construed accordingly. These pension benefits are to-day granted to any Governor who has served for ten years in any part of His Majesty's Dominions, with the exception of British India.
I am going to leave out the British Islands, because I do not think they apply, and I am going to ask the Government whether they will not consider including under the provisions of this amending Bill Indian Governors as well as the Governors of these other Dominions. After all, the Governors in India have duties to perform just as important as, perhaps even more difficult, more delicate and more meticulous than, those of Governors of the self-governing States or Dominions. I think it is hardly fair to them, who have today to meet heavy expenditure and are faced with taxation, just like any other Governors, that they should serve the Crown faithfully and well, as most of them do, in that great country of India, and when they return should be treated differentially from Governors who come back from other places. I know there may be some little difficulty in arranging this matter with the Government of India, but I would like to say this, that it is within the recollection of your Lordships that there are cases, quite recent cases, and cases which may come to pass quite shortly, of Governors who have served the Crown most faithfully and with great distinction, and yet find themselves without any pension after a service of ten years and even more under the Crown. Therefore, on the Committee stage of this Bill I propose to put down an Amendment for consideration, which will 253 provide that the words "and of British India" shall be excluded from Section 12 (1) of the principal Act. I do not ask my noble friend to give me any definite answer on this matter to-day, but I do most sincerely hope that he will pass on these representations to the Government, and that they will give very careful and sympathetic consideration to the case which I have tried to make, with a view to removing the injustices and inequalities of pensions so far as the Indian Governors are concerned.

§ THE EARL OF PLYMOUTH
My Lords, my noble friend was so good as to give me notice that he was going to raise this particular question, but I am afraid that I have not had time to go into the matter sufficiently carefully to be in a position to give him any kind of definite answer this afternoon. But I understand that Indian Governors' pensions are assessed on an entirely different system, as a matter of fact, from the pensions of Colonial Governors, and I imagine that a good deal of examination and negotiation would be inevitable even if it were possible to fall in, with the suggestion of the noble Viscount. As I am at present advised I understand that it would be difficult to deal with that rather complicated matter in this particular Bill, but I can assure him that I will go into the matter very thoroughly, and when he puts his Amendment down I shall examine it, and all those concerned will give it full consideration. I hope to be in a position to deal with the matter more thoroughly when we reach the next stage of the Bill.