HL Deb 25 July 1935 vol 98 cc858-64

Amendments reported (according to Order).

Clause 8:

Recovery of possession of overcrowded house.

8.—(1) Where a dwelling-house is overcrowded in such circumstances as to render the occupier thereof guilty of an offence, nothing in the Rent and Mortgage interest Restrictions Acts, 1920 to 1933, shall prevent the landlord from obtaining possession of the house.

THE DUKE OF MONTROSE moved, in subsection (1), after "1933", to insert "or the Small Landholders (Scotland) Acts, 1886 to 1931,". The noble Duke said: My Lords, I move this Amendment because I cannot see that, where overcrowding of houses becomes an offence, crofters and small landholders are brought within the provisions of this Bill. In the case of other small dwellings this clause enables a landowner to recover possession of the house and so be in a position to rectify the offence. The occupier might plead the security of tenure under the Rent Restrictions Acts, but this clause makes such pleadings null and void. In the case of a crofter, however, I suppose, and indirectly, I suppose, of a cotter, too, the pleading of fixity of tenure under the Small Landholders Act would stand, because without my Amendment I do not see any clause in this Bill which would render such pleadings null and void; and I do not see that a landowner can recover possession of his property from his guilty tenant or that he can do anything to rectify this overcrowding. It would be lamentable if a privileged class like smallholders and crofters should be created, and that anyone could avoid the provisions of this Bill by simply adding an acre or two to his house and becoming a smallholder. I therefore beg to move my Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 34, after ("1933") insert ("or the Small Landholders (Scotland) Acts. 1886 to 1931").—(The Duke of Montrose.)

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, I should like to thank the noble Duke for giving myself and the Department previous information as to the details of his object in moving this Amendment. Subsection (1) of the clause, as it stands, provides that nothing in the Rent Restrictions Acts shall prevent a landlord from obtaining possession of an overcrowded house. That is to say, it applies to controlled houses for which rent is paid for tenancy in the ordinary way. In resisting this Amendment I should like to remind your Lordships that the tenure of small landholders and crofters' houses, with which the Small Landholders Acts deal, is, however, on an entirely different footing. A small landholder or crofter is not an ordinary tenant. Indeed, in many respects the Small Landholders Acts place him in the position of an owner, and the Bill must treat him as being in that position. That is the reason why Clause 8 cannot be applied to small landholders as is suggested. I gather, however, that the noble Duke's main concern is to secure that crofters and small landholders should be brought within the provisions of the Bill, so that it will be an offence for them to overcrowd their houses as in the case of other occupiers.

May I assure him that there is no distinction drawn in the Bill in favour of crofters and small landholders from this point of view? This is made clear by Clause 12, which brings all dwelling-houses within the scope of the overcrowding provisions except houses with a rateable value of more than £45. The Bill definitely applies to crofters and small landholders, who will be liable to penalties for overcrowding after the appointed day in the same way as ordinary tenants. With this explanation I hope that the noble Duke will see his way to withdraw his Amendment.

THE DUKE OF MONTROSE

My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord for his very full explanation, and for the assurance which he has given me. At the same time I think I would like to say that if it is the fact that dwelling-houses of a less rateable value than £45 are brought within the scope of the overcrowding provisions, I do not follow what is the object in Clause 8 of the reference to the Rent and Mortgage Interest Restrictions Acts. In view, however, of the assurance that crofters and small landholders are brought within the Bill, I beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

THE LORD SPEAKER

I think the other two Amendments in the name of the noble Duke are consequential, and therefore they will not be moved.

Clause 22:

Scottish Housing Advisory Committee.

22.—(1) The Department shall appoint a committee, to be called the Scottish Housing Advisory Committee, for the purpose of—

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL moved, at the end of subsection (1), to insert: (d) considering the operation of the enactments relating to housing and making to the Department such representations as the Committee think desirable concerning the execution of those enactments in relation to the general housing needs of the working classes.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this Amendment has been put down to implement the pledge given at the Committee stage to Lord Hutchison of Montrose, who moved on behalf of Lord Balfour of Burleigh. The Amendment gives the Scottish Housing Advisory Committee specific power whereby, on their own initiative, they may make representations to the Department about the execution of the Housing Acts in relation to general questions affecting the housing needs of the working classes. The Amendment substantially embodies the proposal contained in the Amendment moved by Lord Hutchison at the Committee stage.

Amendment moved— Page 17, line paragraph (d).—(Lord strathcona Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 34 [Amendments]:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, the first of the Amendments to this clause is drafting, and the second consequential.

Amendments moved— Page 30, line 30, leave out ("Act, 1926") and insert ("Acts, 1926 and 1931") line 31, leave out ("that") and insert ("the first mentioned").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 47 [Conditions to be observed by local authorities]:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL moved to insert after subsection (6): (7) For the purposes of any enactment relating to valuation or rating, the gross annual value of any dwelling-house or dwelling to which this section applies shall riot exceed the rent (exclusive of occupier's rates) fixed in pursuance of this section, and no account shall be taken of any rebate from the rent so fixed.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this is little more than a drafting Amendment. The new subsection which the Amend- ment proposes to insert in Clause 47 takes the place of Section 43 of the 1930 Act and the Amendment of that Section proposed in the Fifth Schedule on page 80 at line 11. That is to say, the Amendment merely makes clear what has been the intention of the Government all along—namely, that the rent of a local authority house to be entered in the valuation roll for certain purposes is to be the market rent fixed under Clause 47 (5), and not that rent as reduced by any rebate granted to a tenant.

Amendment moved— Page 40, line 31, at end, insert the said subsection (7).—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 70:

By-laws.

70.—(1) A local authority may, and if required by the Department shall, make, with respect to house; used or intended to be used for human habitation, by-laws regarding any of the following matters and applying as follows, that is to say—

(i) by-laws applying to new houses, re-garding—

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL moved, in subsection (1) (i), to insert "(f) the height of ceilings." The noble Lord said: My Lords, this Amendment is put down to implement a promise given to Lord Elgin at the Committee stage. In effect the Amendment enables local authorities to make by-laws for regulating the height of ceilings in new houses. Local authorities in burghs have already powers of this kind but there are no corresponding powers available to county councils, who have made representations to the Government on the matter.

Amendment moved— Page 53, line 3, at end, insert ("(f) the height of ceilings;")—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 75:

Duty of local authority to have regard to amenity, &e.

75.—(1) Section twenty-eight of the Act of 1930 (which imposes a duty on local authorities to have regard to amenity) shall have effect as if the words "artistic quality in the lay-out, planning and treatment of the houses to be provided" had been inserted therein after the words "shall have regard to."

(2) For their better advice in carrying out the requirements of the said Section twenty-eight a local authority may, and if required by the Department shall, appoint a local advisory committee incuding representatives of architectural and other artistic interests.

LORD ALNESS moved to add the following words to subsection (2): "and the local 'authority shall furnish to the Department a copy of any representation, recommendation or report made to them by the committee." The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, this Amendment relates to what I might term the amenities clause of the Bill, to the valuable provisions of which I ventured to call your Lordships' attention on its Second Reading. In the first place your Lordships will agree, I think, that it is desirable that where a scheme for redevelopment or slum clearance includes houses which possess architectural or artistic or historical value, those houses should be preserved in so far as is consistent with the proper planning of the area. The villages of Scotland contain many such houses, and I venture very respectfully to call the attention of the advisory committees which 'are being set up under this clause to this particular aspect of their functions.

The object of my Amendment is, first, to ensure that the views of the local advisory committee with regard to this matter shall be fully before the Department of Health, in order that they may take any action upon it which seems to them proper. The second point is that it will ensure that the views of the local advisory committee shall be before the Department of Health with regard to the new housing schemes from the point of view of general amenity, lay-out, and so forth, in order that any action which may be deemed proper may be taken. My Amendment ensures these two, as I venture to think, wholly admirable results. Therefore I do not stress them further or occupy your Lordships' time by further arguing the matter.

Amendment moved— Page 56, line 18, at end, insert the said words.—(Lord Alness.)

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, in accepting the Amendment I should like to assure the noble Lord that the Government do attach great importance to the need of improving the amenities of housing schemes in Scotland, and for that reason the Bill proposes the appointment of local advisory committees. The Government agree that it is desirable that the Department should be furnished with a copy of any recommendation or report made by a local committee to the authority.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Fifth Schedule [Consequential, drafting and minor Amendments]:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, these are both consequential Amendments.

Amendments moved— Page 80, leave out lines 11 to 17. Page 81, line 27, after ("Schedule") insert ("for the words sub-paragraphs (i) and (ii)' there shall be substituted the words (`sub-paragraph (ii)',").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Sixth Schedule: Part 1 [Enactments repealed as from the commencement of this Act]:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, this is consequential on the insertion of the new subsection in Clause 47.

Amendment moved— Page 86, leave out lines 7 and 8 and insert ("Section forty-three").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a third time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 3a.—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Bill read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.