UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BILL. [H.L.]

HL Deb 19 February 1935 vol 95 cc1000-4

Read 3^a (according to Order).

Clause 49 [Payment of benefit pending determination of claim or question]:

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (1), to leave out "allows" ["Where a court of referees allows"] and insert "allow." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I must apologise to the noble Viscount on the Woolsack for not having brought forward at an earlier stage of the Bill the Amendments which stand on the Order Paper in my name, but being a backswoodsman, I received notice that the Committee stage was taking place only after it had taken place, and the same remark applies to the Report stage. The object of this Amendment is to follow a rule laid down by the noble Viscount on the Woolsack, that all nouns of multitude in a Bill should be treated throughout the Bill as they start, either as singular or as plural. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 35, line 23, leave out ("allows") and insert ("allow").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT SANKEY)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Viscount for drawing our attention to this point: I agree that the alteration ought to be made.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

My Lords, the next Amendment is consequential.

Amendment moved— Page 35, line 24, leave out ("determines") and insert ("determine")—(Viscount Bertie of Theme.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 70 [Conditions of making special arrangements]:

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (1), to leave out "per" and insert "for each". The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I do not think that "per week" is particularly good English. I was fortunate enough last year to persuade the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, that the words "for each" should be substituted for "per". I also notice that on the very next page of this Bill, beginning in line 29, the phrase occurs in Clause 71: Provided that the sum so paid shall not exceed in any year an amount calculated at the rate of one shilling for each week …. so that even in this Bill the language is not quite consistent. If, in the clause under consideration, the word "per" should be used, surely on the next page the word "per" should also be used. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 51, line 22, leave out ("per") and insert ("for each").—(Viscount Bertie of Thome.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I hope that the noble Viscount will not press this Amendment, and I will, if I may, give him reasons for not pressing it. He has rather suggested that the phrase "per week" is not good English, and he desires to substitute the phrase "for each week". I think he will agree with me, at any rate, that as far back as the great Ben Jonson it was laid down that: Custom is the most certain mistress of language as the public stamp makes the current money. With regard to the word "per," perhaps the noble Viscount does not think so highly as I am inclined to think of the Oxford Dictionary, and I quite sym- pathise with him there, but in that dictionary the word "per" is defined as: An English preposition used freely before substantives of many classes. May I mention the five or six instances given, going back a long time: "per invoice," "per ledger"—and may I give the noble Viscount one instance which refers to himself: the noble Viscount "as per usual" is objecting to these expressions. Then "per head," "per foot," "per period," "per day."

Having defended the English, may I come now to the legal position? The word "per" has found its place in quite a number of Acts. It is a word in common usage, for example, in Finance Acts. It has been used in every one of those Acts since 1921, and it was approved by a predecessor of mine, Lord Selborne, in a case heard in the House of Lords. It would rather disturb these Acts if we did not agree to the use of the word "per," and I agree with the noble Viscount that it should have been used also in Clause 71 to which he referred. May I ask the noble Viscount not to press the Amendment? As a matter of fact, it is desired that this Bill should go to the other House to-night, for we think it important to get this Bill upon the Statute Book as early as possible, so that I shall be very grateful if the noble Viscount will withdraw the Amendment.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

My, Lords, I should not think of opposing myself to Ben Jonson, to the noble Viscount on the Woolsack, or to the Oxford Dictionary. Therefore I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 73 [Special schemes]:

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (5), with reference to an association of employers and employees, to leave out "whom" and insert "which." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I do not think I need argue this.

Amendment moved— Page 57, line 25, leave out ("whom") and insert ("which").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Viscount for moving this Amendment. It is perfectly right that it should be made.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 76 [Provision of courses of instruction by education authorities]:

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (1), with reference to an education authority, to leave out "their" and insert "its". The noble Viscount said: Does the noble Viscount on the Woolsack accept this Amendment?

Amendment moved— Page 61, line 36, leave out ("their") and insert ("its").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

Again I must stand in a white sheet. The noble Viscount is perfectly right in moving this Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 81 [Miscellaneous powers of educational authorities]:

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

I think the noble Viscount will probably accept my Amendment upon this clause also?

Amendment moved— Page 66, line 29, leave out ("their") and insert("its").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 91:

Proof of age, marriage and death.

(2) Forms for such requisitions as aforesaid shall on request be supplied without any charge by every registrar of births and deaths, and by every superintendent registrar or other person having the custody of the register.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (2), after "births," to insert "marriages." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I do not see any reason for allowing forms of requisition to be issued free for births and deaths, but not for marriages.

Amendment moved— Page 72, line 21, after ("births") insert ("marriages").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, if I had not been instructed, I should have agreed with the noble Viscount, but I am afraid that we should both of us have been wrong. The position is that if we accepted this Amendment it would involve inserting a description of an official who does not exist. There is not a "registrar of births, marriages and deaths." The officials concerned are described as in the Bill, "registrars of births and deaths," although arrangements are in force by which these officials are also responsible in some cases for the marriage register. As I say, unless I had been instructed I should have agreed with the noble Viscount.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

My Lords, I in my turn stand in a white sheet.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

House adjourned at five minutes past six o'clock.