HL Deb 09 April 1935 vol 96 cc659-65

LORD ELTISLEY had the following Notice on the Paper:—To move to resolve, That it is desirable that a Select Committee be appointed to examine into the present law upon auctioners', house agents' and valuers' licences and to report thereafter to this House their recommendations, if any, as to the alteration of such laws. The noble Lord. said: My Lords, the Motion which I have the honour and privilege of submitting to the House is to a large extent self-explanatory and does not require very many words to commend it to your Lordships. It is a request for the appointment of a Select Committee to examine into the present laws relating to auctioneers', house agents' and valuers' licences; and that that Committee, if the request is granted, should report and make any recommendation it considers desirable as to the alteration of the existing law.

Perhaps I may be permitted, in moving the Motion, to explain the position as it now stands. In 1777 an Act was passed as a means of raising revenue, which was urgently needed when war was being carried on between this country and the American Colonies. This Act, passed in 1777, laid down that persons then practising as auctioneers should take out licences and that they must not practise without a licence. It imposed a fee of £1 for the granting of such a licence, and also provided that ad valorem duties should be imposed on goods sold as a result of the licences which were held. That law stood until 1806, when a further Act was passed which—was is frequently the case with Acts of Parliament now—raised the then licence fee of £1 to £5 and also prescribed that appraisers and valuers should in future be required to take out licences. In 1845 a new Act abolished the ad valorem duties on the sales and revised again the law in respect to auctioneers' licences. It is the Act of 1845 which governs the conditions which obtain to-day.

The law is that auctioneers must take out a licence before they are allowed to practise. The licence runs from the 5th or 6th of July in one year until the 5th or 6th of July in the next year, and costs the applicant £10. It is equally the law that agents letting furnished houses, and valuers and appraisers, also have to take out a licence annually costing them £2, but they need not do so if they hold a £10 auctioneer's licence. Now it appears that the receipts from these licences were desired for revenue purposes and that they were imposed originally for revenue purposes. It can only be said that the revenue which was derived from these licences has not amounted to any great figure, and that the national revenue has not gained very much therefrom. Perusal of the 25th Annual Report of the Customs and Excise Department for the year ending the 31st March, 1934, discloses the fact that the sum paid by the appraisers and valuers and house agents amounted to £13,628, and that the revenue received from auctioneers' licences in England, Wales and Scotland amounted to £71,022. The gross revenue derived from the issue of these licences came, therefore, to the figure of £84,650. During the last five years the national revenue from that source has not exceeded £90,000 in any one year.

Now I desire, if I may, to direct the attention of your Lordships' House to the fact that the Customs and Excise Department have no power whatever to refuse an applicant a licence even if they know him to be an unsuitable applicant, and in fact if they know him to be a rogue. The position is that the great professional bodies, such as the Chartered Surveyors' Institution and the Auctioneers' Institute, who number, I believe, some 6,000 members; the Incorporated Society of Auctioneers, who have over 3,000 members; the estate agents' societies and other organisations, are bound together by a mutual code of professional good conduct, and these bodies exercise a considerable measure of control and discipline acting through their councils upon their members. In order to belong to any of these bodies a member must qualify as to his fitness, his suitability and his professional aptitude, and he must abide by and conform to the regulations to which these bodies subscribe.

While, however, the view of these bodies is strict and succeeds in obtaining a high code of professional conduct, the State view of the matter appears to be entirely different. There are no inquiries regarding any applicant who applies for a licence. He is not asked to produce any references; no standard of conduct is demanded from him when he has obtained his licence. All and sundry can take out licences, and no kind of protection is given by the State in return for the licences it issues, either to the public or to those who are legitimately and properly carrying on a very important business. Let me give a hypothetical case—I believe it is a practical case in fact, which has occurred more than once. A licence is taken out by an applicant early in July; he is convicted, perhaps, of fraudulent conversion of his client's money and receives, we may say, six months imprisonment for his offence. He is released in February of the same licence year. He emerges from the prison, again puts up his brass plate, and is free from any regulation or control other than that exercised by the keen eye of the police in his own neighbourhood.

Then as to the business methods of certain persons who obtain auctioneers' licences. Apart from perhaps actual fraud, many sail close to the wind. There are those mock auctions which mostly affect poorer people rather than the wealthier, and always take place at holiday centres. No doubt many will take place this Jubilee year, for the benefit of some of our visitors. The promoters of these mock auctions pay little or no attention to early closing days, to shop hours and such-like matters. They sell gaudy, bright and cheap articles at exorbitant prices. They may take the lease of a jeweller's premises for a few weeks, fill it with large stocks of the commonest kind of jewellery, and station specious touts discreetly about the auction room, who help them to impose upon the public. Complaints have been received from all quarters with regard to these businesses. They spring up like mushrooms in a night. Complaints have been received quite recently from places like Woking, Wisbech, Swansea, Margate, St. Leonards, Blackpool and other parts of the country.

It may be contended in objection to this Motion that it would be futile to try to do anything, and that the present law represents the right way to deal with this kind of people. I can hardly feel that the law is really the best way, or is really competent to deal with the matter, for if it were so there would be fewer complaints and fewer cases than there are at the present time. I venture to think that an inquiry as to the terms and conditions under which licences may be issued is one way which would tend to restrict the activities of this class of individual. I have restricted the inquiry to the narrow limits of licensing, which leaves out of account the bigger question of registration. That is a matter which is possibly more debatable and a much bigger issue. Vast numbers of complaints have been received, and are being daily received, which show that action is required, and that some power should be given to the licensing authorities both to withdraw licences already issued and in certain circumstances to refuse applications for licences.

It was only the other day that a police officer at the London Sessions said that a man was a fraud, a drunkard and a worthless scamp. That man got four years for false pretences and conspiracy. Yet directly he emerges from prison he can start again in business. In other countries, and particularly in our great Dominions, like Canada and Australia, action is taken to curb the activities of these individuals, and the grant of a licence to practise as an auctioneer or valuer is made subject to certain considerations. We apparently stand almost alone as a nation in the way in which we issue our licences.

In submitting my Resolution, I would like to say that it is promoted by no less a body than the Incorporated Society of Auctioneers and supported by the National Association of Goldsmiths and other bodies. The National Association of Goldsmiths "earnestly hope that the desired Select Committee may be set up" and add that they hope that inquiry will be specially made into those irregular auctions where no catalogues are issued and goods of inferior quality, specially manufactured for the purpose, are sold. The National Chamber of Trade, representing 400 local chambers and associations and 20 national organisations, state that their Chamber welcome an inquiry and add that they "have made representation to the Home Office for a strengthening of the law and earnestly trust that …the inquiry …. will be granted." The Advertising Association have also written to me to say that in the interest of newspaper advertisement it is desirable to draw as far as possible a clear line of distinction between the announcements of qualified men and those who are rogues.

I have no doubt I could give other instances, but I will only complete my observations by pointing out that it is nearly seventy-five years since the question of the granting of licences was considered. A great deal of water has flowed under the bridges since the Act of 1860, and I venture to think that that Act has stood the test of time rather better than most Acts of Parliament do. I have made considerable inquiry and I have reason to believe that the great majority of auctioneers, estate agents and valuers in the country desire some reform of the method of granting licences, and that they will be ready to make practical suggestions if this request for a Committee of Inquiry is granted. There is no desire that the Revenue should in any way suffer by reason of the introduction of any other system, and I would add that this is not an attempt to shelve the question by way of a Committee. I trust that I have said enough to show that there is a reasonable case, and I venture to think a strong case, to justify action being taken. Having brought the matter to your Lordships' attention, I hope I may be able to obtain the sympathy of the House in this matter, and that you will grant this request for a Committee of Inquiry.

Moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to examine into the present law upon auctioneers', house agents' and valuers' licences and to report thereafter to this House their recommendations, if any, as to the alteration of such laws.—(Lord Eltisley.)

THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM

My Lords, the proposals contained in the Motion of the noble Lord behind me, that a Select Committee should be appointed to examine the present law for the licensing of auctioneers, is a matter upon which the Home Secretary has no decided opinion, one way or another, for it is a matter which very largely concerns other Departments, and about which the Home Office have little information. Perhaps, however, it would be as well for me, briefly, to enumerate the sequence of events that have occurred recently, as far as is known.

There are four organisations which are concerned with the functions of auctioners: The Incorporated Society of Auctioners and the National Association of Auctioneers, which are the two junior organisations, and the Auctioneers Institute and the Chartered Surveyors Institution, which are the senior bodies. For a considerable number of years the two junior bodies have been pressing not only for licensing but for registration of auctioneers, and it may be some index of the position that in 1928 a Bill for the registration of landed property agents, introduced under the Ten Minute Rule, was defeated in another place, I understand on the recommendation of the two senior bodies. This would suggest that the organisations representing the auctioneers are divided upon the larger question of registration. Whether it be true that they are equally divided upon this smaller question of licensing is a matter which might, well be enquired into by a Select Committee, and therefore my right honourable friend does not wish to oppose the Motion that a Select Committee be appointed, though he considers that it is a matter for the decision of your Lordships, and if the House so desires he will give every assistance that is available to the Select Committee, should it be appointed.

On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.