HL Deb 01 May 1934 vol 91 cc972-4

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Motion agreed to. House in Committee accordingly:

[The EARL OF ONSLOW in the Chair.]

Clause 1 [Penalties for illegal trawling]:

THE UNDER-SECRETARY or STATE Fox WAR (LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL)

On the Second Reading of this Bill the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition suggested that the penalties on the owner of a trawler for a third offence under Clause 1 (3) should be increased by providing that the owner should be liable to imprisonment, and not merely to a fine. At the time I gave the noble Lord the answer which I thought was adequate for the occasion, but I promised that the matter should be further considered; and, in accordance with that promise, further consideration has been given to the point, with the result that the Government do not feel able to agree that such a modification of the Bill is desirable. The owner is liable on a third conviction to a fine of£500, in addition to forfeiture of gear, and the Government consider that this will be a sufficient deterrent.

There are, however, two other considerations which are worth bearing in mind. It should be remembered that the owner's offence under Clause 1 (3) is an imputed crime, and in a given case the owner might be only legally, and not morally, responsible for one or more of the previous infringements, because he may have done what he could to prevent the skipper from illegal trawling. Also, the infliction of imprisonment might work out unequally as between, on the one hand, individual owners, and, on the other hand, companies, in regard to which the application of the penalty of imprisonment would obviously present difficulties. In these circumstances the Government do not feel able to accept the noble Lord's suggestion, and I very much hope therefore that he will, as he promised, not press it.

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

I only desire to thank the noble Lord for his courtesy in considering my point so fully and treating it just as if I had put an Amendment on the Paper. I did not put an Amendment on the Paper because the noble Lord was good enough to intimate to me the reasons why the Government could not accept it, but I thank him very much for his explanation.

Clause I agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to. Schedule agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment.