§ Amendments reported (according to Order).
§ Clause 1:
§ Hours of employment.
§ (2) On occasions of seasonal or exceptional pressure of work at any shop, young persons may, subject as hereinafter provided, and subject to the provisions of any other enactment, be employed about the business of the shop overtime, that is to say, in excess of the normal maximum working hours:
§ Provided that in the case of any shop—
- (a) when in any year there have been six weeks (whether consecutive or not) in which any young person has been employed overtime about the business of the shop, no young person shall be so employed during the remainder of that year;
- (b) no young person shall be employed overtime about the business of the shop—
- (i) in any year after he has been employed overtime about the business of that or any other shop for fifty working hours in that year;
- (ii)in any week after he has been employed overtime about the business of that or any other shop for twelve working hours in that week.
§ (3) If any young person who is in any week employed about the business of a shop is in that week employed by the occupier of the shop about the business of any other shop or in a factory or workshop, or has to the knowledge of the occupier of the shop been previously employed in that week by any other employer about the business of any other shop or in a factory or workshop, then for the purposes of the foregoing provisions of this section, he shall be deemed to have been employed about the business of the first mentioned shop during the time during which he was employed about the business of that other shop or in the factory or workshop.
§ (5) In the case of any contravention of the provisions of this section, the occupier of the shop shall be liable to a fine not exceeding ten pounds for every person in respect of whom the contravention occurs:
§ Provided that in any proceedings for such an offence in respect of the employment overtime of any person after he has been so employed in any year or in any week for the numbers of working hours respectively permitted by proviso (b) to subsection (2) of this section, it shall be a defence to prove that the person charged did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained that the person employed overtime had been previously so employed for the said number of working hours.
§
THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM moved a manuscript Amendment, in proviso (a) of subsection (2), to leave out "any
428
young person has" and insert "young persons have." The noble Earl said: My Lords, I should like to express my regrets, on behalf of the Department, at the number of what may appear to be rather formidable Amendments at this stage, but your Lordships will perhaps have observed that many of them are in the nature of drafting or consequential Amendments. This Amendment is purely a drafting Amendment. The proviso (a) of subsection (2) of Clause 1 provides that in the case of any shop
when in any year there have been six weeks (whether consecutive or not) in which any young person has been employed overtime about the business of the shop, no young person shall be so employed during the remainder of that year.
It has been suggested that this proviso as it stands might be interpreted to mean that the limitation of six weeks applies to the individual young person and not to the shop as a whole; that is to say, that so long as there was no young person in the shop who had been employed overtime in six weeks it would be permissible for the shopkeeper to go on using overtime for his young persons. This is not the intention of the proviso, and the object of the Amendment is to make it clear that any week in which young persons have been employed overtime counts as one of the six weeks to which overtime is limited during a calendar year. In other words, the limitation of six weeks is to apply to the shop as a whole and not to the individual young person.
§ I think it may be wise, as one or two noble Lords have discussed this matter, to say here that if the limitation were applied to the individual young person it would go considerably beyond what was asked for by the organisations representing the shopkeepers. They asked for overtime to enable them to deal with certain weeks such as at Christmas, when they are faced with exceptional pressure, and generally speaking it is understood that they will be satisfied if they can avail themselves of overtime in six weeks in any calendar year in order to deal with these special periods. A limitation for the individual young person would also be undesirable as it would give an advantage to the larger shops with a number of juveniles who would be in a position to avail themselves of overtime in a large number of weeks, while the small shop- 429 keeper with only one young person (for example, an errand boy) would be limited to six weeks and would find it difficult to compete. For these reasons it is considered advisable to make it clear that the intention of the proviso is that the limitation of six weeks should apply to the shop as a whole. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 4, leave out (" any young person has ") and insert (" young persons have ").—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM moved, in proviso (b) (i) of subsection (2), to leave out "that or ally other" and insert "the." The noble Earl said: My Lords, the object of subsection (3) of Clause 1 is to provide for the case of mixed employment; that is, of a young person employed in two shops, or in a shop and a factory in the same week. The clause provides that the employment in the other shop or factory shall count as employment for the purposes of the normal weekly maximum or overtime as the case may be. In view of this subsection the references to "any other shop" in the previous subsection are unnecessary and it is therefore proposed to omit them. This accounts for the first two Amendments on the Paper in my name. As regards the third Amendment, the wording of the existing subsection (3) is somewhat elaborate, and can be put more simply and briefly as proposed in the first paragraph of the Amendment.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 12, leave out ("that or any other") and insert ("the").—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendments moved—
Page 2, line 16, leave out (" that or any other ") and insert (" the ").
Page 2, line 18, leave out subsection (3) and insert the following subsection:
§ "(3) In determining for the purposes of this Act the number of working hours for which a young person has in any week been employed about the business of any shop, be shall be deemed to have been also employed about the business thereof during any time during which he was in that week employed about the business of any other shop or in a factory or workshop:
§ Provided that, if in any proceedings against the occupier of a shop in respect of a contravention of the provisions of this Act it is shown that the contravention occurred only by reason of time during 430 which a young person was employed by another employer being deemed, in accordance with the provisions of this subsection, to be time during which he was employed about the business of that shop, it shall be a defence to prove that the occupier did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained that the young person was employed for that time by the other employer."—(The Earl of Feversham)
§ On Question, Amendments agreed to.
§ THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM moved, in subsection (5), after "liable," to insert "on summary conviction." The noble Earl said: My Lords, this Amendment is for the purpose of making it clear that a fine may only be recovered following proceedings and conviction in a court of summary jurisdiction.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 41, after ("liable") insert ("on summary conviction").—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 3, line 1, leave out from the beginning to the end of line 10.—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 3 [Restrictions on night employment]:
THE EARL OF FEVERSHAMMy Lords, the Amendment to this clause is similar to the Amendment in Clause 1.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 3, line 37, after ("liable") insert ("on summary conviction").—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 6:
§ Special provisions as to the sale of accessories for aircraft, motor vehicles and cycles.
§ 6.—(1) If the occupier of any shop in which there is carried on the business of serving customers with supplies or accessories for aircraft, motor vehicles, or cycles sold for immediate use, by notice to the local authority whose duty it is to enforce the foregoing provisions of this Act within the district in which the shop is situated, given in such form, in such manner and at such time before the notice is to take effect, as may he prescribed, signifies that he elects that the provisions of this subsection shall be applicable to that shop, then, unless and until the notice is withdrawn, in relation to young persons employed in connection with the business aforesaid, the normal maximum working hours shall, instead of being forty- 431 eight working hours in any week, be such number of hours, being neither more than fifty-four in any week nor more than one hundred and forty-four in any period of three consecutive weeks, as may be specified in the notice, and Section one of this Act shall have effect accordingly:
§ Provided that, while the provisions of this subsection are applicable to a shop, a young person employed in connection with the business aforesaid shall he deemed to have been employed in contravention of the provisions of Section one of this Act, if in any week he was employed overtime about the business of the shop after he had been employed about the business of that or any other shop for fifty-four working hours in that week so, however, that in relation to any such contravention the reference in subsection (5) of the said section to proviso (b) to subsection (2) of that section shall include a reference to this proviso.
§
THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM moved to leave out of the proviso in subsection (1) all words after the first "shop" and insert:
Section one of this Act shall in relation to any young person employed in connection with the business aforesaid have effect as if in proviso (b) to subsection (2) thereof there were inserted the following additional paragraph, that is to say—
'(iii) in any week after he has been employed about the business of the shop for fifty-four working hours in that week.'
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, the object of the proviso to this subsection is to provide that young persons may be employed overtime where an averaging system has been adopted, but that where overtime is worked the total weekly hours are not to exceed 54. The general effect of the provisions is not altered in any way.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 6. line 16, leave out from ("shop") to the end of line 26 and insert the said new words.—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 7 [Records]:
§ THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM moved, in subsection (4,) after "liable," to insert "on summary conviction". The noble Lord said: My Lords, This is similar to the Amendments in Clause 1 and Clause 6.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 8, line 9, after ("liable") insert ("on summary conviction").—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
432§ Clause 10:
§ Provisions as to sanitary or other arrangements in shops.
§ (6) If it appears to the authority whose duty it is to enforce any provision of this section that there has been, in the case of any shop, a contravention of that provision, the authority shall, by notice served on the owner or occupier of the shop, require him to take, within such time as may be limited by the notice, such action as may be specified in the notice for the purpose of securing compliance with the said provision, and if any person served with such a notice fails to comply with the requirements thereof he shall be liable to a fine not exceeding five pounds for every day on which the contravention occurs or continues:
§ Provided that it shall be a defence to any proceedings under this subsection to prove that there was no contravention of the provisions of this section, or that the requirements of any such notice as aforesaid were, within a reasonable time after service of the notice, complied with in so far as they were necessary to secure compliance with the provisions of this section.
§ THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM moved, in subsection (6), to leave out "to a fine not exceeding five pounds for every day on which the contravention occurs or continues" and insert "on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds, or in the case of a second or subsequent conviction in respect of the same requirement, to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or five pounds for every day since the first conviction in respect of that requirement, whichever is the greater." The noble Earl said: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Chesham, in Committee raised the question of the effect of the part of this subsection which relates to the penalties to be imposed for failure to comply with the requirements relating to the health and comfort of shop workers. I explained in reply that the effect of the clause as it stands is that a person who fails to comply with the notice is liable on conviction to a cumulative penalty of £5 for every day on which he makes default between the expiry of the period named in the notice and the laying of the information. If after conviction he still refuses to comply with the notice further proceedings can be taken and he would again be liable to a cumulative fine for the period between the first conviction and the laying of the second information. I agreed, however, at the time that I would consider the provision further before this stage of the Bill.
433§ It is now thought unnecessary and undesirable to provide for a cumulative penalty on the occasion of the initial conviction. The amended provision accordingly imposes, first a penalty of £20 for the initial offence, irrespective of the period over which the default has continued, and secondly in case of an offender who has failed after conviction to carry out a requirement, a penalty on second or subsequent conviction not exceeding £50 or £25 for every day during which the default has continued since the first conviction. I hope that this Amendment will satisfactorily meet the point which the noble Lord, Lord Chesham, raised in Committee. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 9, line 41, leave out from ("liable") to the end of line 2 on page 10, mid insert the said new words.—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 12 [Enforcement]:
THE EARL OF FEVERSHAMMy Lords, the Amendments proposed to Clause 12 are drafting Amendments and do not alter in any way the effect of the provisions of that clause. It is proposed to rearrange them with the object of making clear the powers and duties of the various authorities concerned and the powers and duties of the inspectors appointed by those authorities. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 10, line 28, leave out ("and") and insert ("save that").—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 10, line 34, leave out from the beginning to the end of line 6 on page 11 and insert (" Provided that the said sections shall not apply
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 11, line 18, leave out from ("shall") to the end of line 19 and insert ("for the purposes of his powers and duties have in relation to shops all the powers conferred in relation to factories
434
and workshops on inspectors by Section one hundred and nineteen of the Factory and Workshop Al, 1901, and that section and Section one hundred and twenty-one of the same Act shall apply accordingly "). —(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 11, line 19, at end insert:
(" (4) Notwithstanding that the provisions of this Act relating to ventilation and temperature of shops and to sanitary conveniences are not enforceable by local authorities under the provisions of the Shops Act, 1912, it shall nevertheless be the duty of inspectors appointed under that Act to take note of and if necessary report to the sanitary authority for the district any contravention of the said provisions of this Act, and for that purpose the provisions of Section thirteen of the Shops Act, 1912, relating to such inspectors shall apply accordingly.")—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 14:
§ Interpretation and saving.
§
14.—(1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires, the following expressions have the meanings hereby respectively assigned to them, that is to say:
Young person" means a person who has not attained the age of eighteen years;
and, save as in this Act otherwise expressly provided, expressions defined by the Shops Act, 1912, have the same meanings as in that Act.
§ THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM moved, in the definition of "Young person," after "Young person," to insert "does not include a child whose employment is regulated by Section eighteen of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, but save as aforesaid." The noble Earl said: My Lords, the object of this Amendment is to make it clear that in the case of school children whose hours are already regulated by the provisions of Section 18 of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, the hours of those children shall be regulated solely by that Act, and shall not come within the scope of this Bill. The Bill defines a young person simply as a person who bas not attained the age of 18. Under this definition as it stands, the provisions of the Bill would, strictly speaking, apply to any school children who are employed in the distributive trades. But the application of the Bill to these children is regarded as 435 unnecessary, and as likely to give rise to confusion and overlapping of the functions of the local authorities concerned. I think there can be no dissension in your Lordships' House that as the regulation of the hours of school children is governed by the Children Act, it is unnecessary to include them in this Bill, and would be redundant. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 13, line 10, after (" Young person") insert (" does not include a child whose employment is regulated by Section eighteen of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, but save as aforesaid.")—(The Earl of Ferersham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM moved, after subsection (1), to insert:
(2) For the purposes of this Act a person who works about the business of a shop for the occupier thereof or in connection with any retail trade or business for the person by whom it is carried on, shall be deemed to be employed, notwithstanding, that he receives no reward for his labour.
The noble Earl said: My Lords, the object of this Amendment is to make it clear that any young person who works in a shop will come within the scope of the Bill, notwithstanding that he may receive no payment for his services. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 13, line 14, at end insert the said new subsection.—(The Earl of Feversham)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 15 [Application to Scotland]:
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 3, at end insert the following new paragraphs:
(b) References to provisions of the Shops Act, 1912, shall be construed as references to those provisions as applied to Scotland by Section twenty of that Act.
(c) For any reference to Section eighteen of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1932, there shall be substituted a reference to Sections forty-three and forty-four of the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1932."—(The Earl of Feversham.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
436
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 10, after (" Act ") insert (" and paragraph (a) of the proviso to subsection (a) of the said section shall not apply ").—(The Earl of Feversltant.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.