HL Deb 07 March 1934 vol 91 cc50-6

Amendments reported (according to Order).

The Title:

An Act to restrict the sale, display and advertisement of contraceptives.

LORD DAWSON OF PENN moved to leave out "restrict" and insert "regulate." The noble Lord said: My Lords, I move this Amendment because I think that the word "regulate "will more aptly describe the Bill.

Amendment moved— Leave out ("restrict") and insert ("regulate").—(Lord Dawson of Penn.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved to leave out "display." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, the word "display" is no longer appropriate to the Title owing to the fact that the noble Lord in charge of the Bill moved in Committee to leave out the "display" of these things. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Leave out ("display").— (Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 1:

Restriction of sale, display and advertisement of contraceptives.

1.—(1) It shall not be lawful—

(c) to display in, on, or outside any shop, so as to be visible to persons outside the shop, any picture or written description of any contraceptive, or any illuminated sign advertising contraceptives;

Provided that nothing in the foregoing provisions shall render unlawful:

(ii) the sending or delivery to any person of any book, newspaper or magazine containing advertisements of contraceptives, unless the book, newspaper or magazine is published wholly or mainly for the purpose of advertising contraceptives.

(2) If any person contravenes any provision of this section, he shall be liable on summary conviction, in the case of a first offence, to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds, and, in the case of a second offence, to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds, and, in the case of any second offence, to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to both such fine and such imprisonment:

Provided that it shall be a defence to any charge brought under paragraph (d) of the foregoing subsection to prove that the person charged had reasonable grounds for believing that the person to whom the document was sent or delivered had attained the age of eighteen years or was a married person.

Loan DAWSON OF PENN moved, in paragraph (c) of subsection (1), to leave out "or written description" and insert "diagram or written matter illustrating or describing the use or effect." The noble Lord said: My Lords, the purpose of this Amendment is to distinguish between what may be described as a label and, on the other hand, what corresponds to description. Since contraceptives may be shown in a shop window, it is reasonable that there should be permitted a display of labels which merely describe the character of the contraceptive offered for sale, yet at the same time, as we are aiming against obtrusiveness, one wishes to prohibit any description of the use of contraceptives which might involve giving also anatomical details. My Amendment promotes the object of the Bill and does not interfere with labels, and yet prevents the use of pictures or diagrams which might give anatomical details.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 19, leave out ("or written description") and insert ("diagram or written matter illustrating or describing the use or effect").—(Lord Dawson of Penn.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD DAWSON OF PENNmoved, in proviso (ii) in subsection (1), to leave out "advertising" and insert "the commercial advertisement of." The noble Lord said: My Lords, this Amendment will distinguish more clearly between the ordinary use of the word "advertisement" and "advertisements for commercial purposes," which would take place in the sending round of circulars for the almost exclusive purpose of advertising contraceptives.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 2, leave out ("advertising") and insert ("the commercial advertisement of").—(Lord Dawson of Penn.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD DAWSON OF PENN moved, in the proviso in subsection (2), to leave out "document" and insert "circular or advertisement." The noble Lord said: My Lords, I have been advised that this is a better way of expressing the meaning of the clause.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 30, leave out ("document") and insert ("circular or advertisement"). —(Lord Dawson of Penn.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2:

Interpretation.

2. In this Act the following expressions have the meanings hereby respectively assigned to them, that is to say:— Public place" includes any public park, garden, sea beach, pier, market, fair, public garage, licensed premises, place of entertainment or railway station, and any ground to which the public for the time being have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise; Shop" includes any premises where any retail trade or business is carried on; Street" includes any highway and any public bridge, road, lane, footway, square, court, alley or passage, whether thoroughfare or not, and includes any doorway or open porch adjoining any street.

Loan DAWSON OF PENN moved, in the definition of "public place," to leave out "public" ["public garage"]. The noble Lord said: My Lords, in approaching this Amendment I have been influenced by the words which fell from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Han-worth, in which he advised simplicity, as far as possible, in the definition clause. I beg to move to leave out the word "public" and the reason for that is that it is unnecessary, because the word "public" occurs earlier at the beginning of that line "—'public place' includes any public park, garden," etc. There is objection to putting in "public" because it would appear that if you put in that word "public" before "garage" you almost, by imputation, suggest that some of the other places are not public, whereas if it is simply "garage" it is governed by "public" already in the previous line of the definition.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 41, leave out ("public").—(Lord Dawson of Penn.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD DAWSON OF PENN moved, in the definition of "public place," to leave out "licensed premises." The noble Lord said: My Lords, there is a later Amendment in which I bring up the words "licensed premises" again, in a form more fitting to the Bill, and I content myself now with moving the omission of these words.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 1 leave out ("licensed premises").—(Lord Dawson of Penn.) On Question, Amendment agreed to.

VISCOUNT BERTLE OF THAMEmoved, in the definition of "public place," after "entertainment," to insert "lavatory or sanitary convenience." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I notice that the next Amendment, in the name of Lord Dawson of Penn, proposes to insert simply the word "lavatory." I suppose he thinks that by that euphemism he will cover "sanitary convenience," but I can assure him that that is not so. If he will refer to the Public Health (London) Act, 1891, Section 44, subsection (1), he will see that Every sanitary authority may provide and maintain public lavatories and ashpits and public sanitary conveniences, so that in that Act there is a distinction between a lavatory and a sanitary convenience. Having said what I have I hope the noble Lord will see his way to accept my Amendment. I do not propose to include the word "public," which appears on the Paper, for the reason given by the noble Lord himself —namely, that "public" governs the whole definition.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 1, after ("entertainment") insert ("lavatory or sanitary convenience").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

LORD DAWSON OF PENN

My Lords, these are matters on which I am an ignoramus. I have sought the best advice at my disposal from noble and learned Lords, and I am informed that these words are redundant, that they are covered by the word "lavatory." I think the more simple we can keep these definitions the better. We may go on and on in the hope of including everything under the sun. I therefore cannot accept the Amendment.

LORD ASKWITH

Can the noble Viscount, Lord Bertie, describe the difference between the two?

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

My Lords, in one you wash your hands, the other is a urinal. There is that distinction in the Act I quoted. I ask the noble Lord to accept the Amendment now, and if his advisers are still of the same opinion he can always take it out again on the Third Reading.

THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY

My Lords, I cannot help hoping that my noble friend will see his way to accept this important and far-reaching Amendment, because the noble Viscount has called attention to a Public Health Act, in which this distinction is expressly made. It cannot take away from anything that the noble Lord desires. It might conceivably be an advantage, since this distinction is already made in legislation.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD DAWSON OF PENN

My Lords, I beg to move to add certain words to the definition of "public place."

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 5, at end insert ("and also includes any licensed premises within the meaning of the Licensing Acts, 1910 to 1923").—(Lord Dawson of Penn.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in the definition of "street," after "lane," to insert "mews." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, you may be surprised to hear that a mews is not a street, and to support my contention I quote from Stroud's Judicial Dictionary, which says: Qua Metropolitan Management Act, 1855, "Street" shall apply to and include any highway (except a carriage way of any turnpike road) and any road, bridge (not being a county bridge), lane, footway, square, court, alley, passage, whether a thoroughfare or not, and a part of any such highway, road, bridge, lane, footway, square, court, alley, or passage,' which definition was subsequently amplified so as to include 'any mews and a part thereof.' If under one Act a mews is not a street, surely under this Bill it may not be. There may be a technical defence unless "mews" is inserted. This Amendment is only moved to make the clause watertight.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 9, after ("lane") insert ("mews").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

LORD DAWSON OF PENN

My Lords, it is really refreshing to find other professions than my own where differences of opinion exist. I have had the advantage of the opinion of two lawyers on this, and I am advised that as the definition includes a public road, lane and footway, the word "mews" is unnecessary as it is covered by the other words in the clause. The noble Viscount thinks otherwise. I do not think it matters very much, except that it is rather a mistake to amplify where you can avoid it. I have the high authority of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hanworth, who warned us last time against multiplying these terms. I would much rather keep the simpler form.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

My Lords, it seems to me that there is a loophole for a technical defence here if these things are hawked about in mews, but I do not feel very strongly on the matter, and perhaps we might have the Amendment negatived.

On Question, Amendment negatived.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in the definition of "street," after "footway," to insert "subway." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, a footway has a very special meaning. Again I refer to Stroud's Judicial Dictionary. For "footway" Stroud refers you to "footpath," and under "footpath" you see this: Footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers. A subway is not that. I hope the noble Lord will let the Amendment go in now and take it out, if he thinks it unnecessary, on Third Reading. However, if he likes to leave loopholes for technical defences it is not a matter which concerns me very much, except that I do not like to see in the papers that so-and-so is not a "place" within the meaning of the Act.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 9 after ("footway") insert ("subway").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

THE MARQUESS OF BATH

My Lords, may I speak from the point of view of a magistrate? I suppose a magistrate's court would have to deal with this Bill. It seems to me that if you multiply these definitions there is far greater chance of loopholes, because the defence will be that the word "subway" was deliberately inserted. The wider you leave your definitions the better.

On Question, Amendment negatived.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

My Lords, I beg to move another Amendment to the definition of "street."

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 9, after ("alley") Insert ("arcade").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

LORD DAWSON OF PENN

My Lords, for the reason I gave before, I must oppose this Amendment. "Arcade" is covered by "alley" or "passage".

On Question, Amendment negatived.