§ LORD STRACHIE rose to call attention to the recent outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease in Somerset, and to ask His Majesty's Government whether they intend to stop the importation of anything likely to cause an outbreak of this disease; and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: My Lords, I desire to draw the attention of the House to the recent very serious outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease in the County of Somerset. The outbreak took place in one part, and 441 afterwards spread to seven other places. Your Lordships will realise how serious the outbreak was when I tell you that the number of cattle actually slaughtered was 286, and the compensation paid was £6,075. No doubt, that compensation was arrived at perfectly fairly, but, owing to the very low price of stock, undoubtedly the compensation will not repay the unfortunate farmers who suffered the loss. In one particular ease the loss was very serious. There was a man who had spent the whole of his lifetime in building up a very fine herd of shorthorn cattle. The present tenant farmer is a daughter of this man, and the loss in that particular case was enormous. Then, of course, it is well known, especially in a dairying country, that when you have built up a herd of good milking cows it is very difficult to replace them, and monetary compensation is of very little value. With regard to sheep there were 248 slaughtered, and the amount of compensation paid was £496. In the ease of pigs seventy-four were slaughtered, and £159 was paid in compensation. The total number of animals slaughtered was 608, and the total amount of compensation was £6,730. That is not a small item, but it does not at all represent the loss sustained by the persons who owned these animals.
§ The origin of the outbreak is, I am informed, entirely unknown at the present moment. That is one of the reasons why I am drawing your Lordships' attention to the present state of things. We are always informed by the Ministry that it is not known how the infection is brought into this country. Of course, the Port of Bristol being very near, the disease may possibly have come over from Ireland, but I have been told that there is no foot-and-mouth disease in Ireland to-day. I should like to have an assurance from the noble Earl officially that that is so. I am given to understand that cattle are brought from Ireland and placed in quarantine for a certain time. I should like to know the length of time, and what precautions are taken to see that no persons who have to feed these cattle or deal with them in any way are allowed to move about on other farms. It is undoubtedly the case that human beings can carry the infection from one district to another. I know one case in which foot-and-mouth dis- 442 ease was spread in this way. Foot-and-mouth disease at that time was rampant. in Ireland, and a man went to Bristol market, came home, and went about his farm, and a few days afterwards there was an outbreak of the disease, clearly showing that it can be spread by human beings.
§ Then there is a report—and I should like to know if the noble Earl has heard anything of this report—that the outbreak was not reported for a whole seven days after it had occurred—that is to say, apparently the person who saw it either did not understand what it was, or did not take the trouble to report the matter. It is, of course, of the utmost importance that when an outbreak occurs it should be reported immediately. In this ease it is said it was a veterinary surgeon who did not report the case. This may be only a rumour, but there is a strong feeling in my part of the country regarding the matter, and it would be very satisfactory if the noble Earl could say there is no truth in that report. I think it has never been denied that hay and straw for packing purposes have been the cause of bringing foot-and-mouth disease into this country. The noble Earl will perhaps remember the case in the island of Sark, in which the disease was spread through the packing in which a piano was brought to the island; and we know the precautions which are taken in the Channel Islands to keep out infection.
§ There is also the question— to my mind the very serious question—of bagged meat from the Argentine. What is done with these bags afterwards? As far as I know, they are not destroyed, and there is always the danger of feeding stuffs being put into them, or any other kind of produce. It is well to remember that from a country like the Argentine, which is simply teeming with foot-and-mouth disease, infection may be brought over in these bags in which the meat is carried. It is very interesting to note that in America no kind of meat is allowed to be brought into the country, and America at the present moment is entirely free of foot-and-mouth disease since they spent £1,000,000 on stamping it out. And there is Canada. We all know that it is perfectly free from foot-and-mouth disease, so much so that even now breeding cattle, under the Ottawa 443 Agreement, are brought into this country, though not with the approval, as the noble Earl knows, of the breeders in this country, nor of the great societies which deal with shorthorns, red polls and various other breeds. I venture to say to the noble Earl that if Canada and America are by certain regulations enabled to keep out foot-and-mouth disease entirely, is it not incumbent upon our Government to enquire into this matter and see whether we should not be able to have such regulations as would prevent any chance of the disease being brought into this country?
§ In the old days we used to be told that it could not be done owing to birds bringing the disease into this country. The remarkable thing is that that explanation has now been dropped because, during the War, there were no outbreaks in this country, although, as every one knows, birds continued to come to this country during the War just as much as they do in times of peace. It is remarkable, too, that during the War, when there was hardly any importation from such countries as France, Germany and Holland, where foot-and-mouth disease is always rampant, there was no foot-and-mouth disease in this country.
§
I should like now to draw the attention of the House to a resolution which was passed only to-day at the Council of the Central Landowners' Association, of which so many of your Lordships are members. That is a body which represents over ten thousand farmers and landowners in this country. It is a very important body from the point of view that there are so many owner-occupiers who are members of it, small men who might be ruined if they had a serious outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease on their farms. If they are renting under a large landowner it would be difficult for the latter to do what used to be done in the old days, assist his tenant considerably in such cases. In the case of some owner-occupiers there is no one to give help, and an outbreak of disease very often may mean complete ruin. I was, therefore, not at all surprised, that the Council of the Central Landowners' Association should pass this resolution:
That immediate steps should be taken by the Ministry of Agriculture to pie-vent outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease by stopping the importation of anything which might introduce foot-and-mouth disease into Great Britain.
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I think that resolution is worthy of some consideration. As I have already said, it comes from a great body of landowners, large and small. Of course, the noble Earl cannot give any details, but I hope he will go into this matter and that the Ministry will consider whether it is not possible to keep foot-and-mouth disease out of this country in the same way as it is kept out of great countries like Canada and America. I beg to move.
§ EARL DE LA WARRMy Lords, I think we must all feel grateful to the noble Lord for bringing up this most important subject. I only wish that it had been possible for me to have had a little more time to consider the answer to be given to so important a question. Before dealing with the general subject, I will try to answer one or two of the questions which the noble Lord has addressed to me. One is, with regard to the delay in reporting a certain case. I think the noble Lord said that it had not been reported for seven days. I find that the facts are these. The owner of a sow noticed lameness on October 19 and on October 21 he called in a veterinary surgeon, but the veterinary surgeon was not convinced that it was foot-and-mouth disease until October 23. Therefore, there were two days delay and not seven in the veterinary surgeon coming to a decision. Although the noble Lord did not actually say so, I think the tenor of his remarks at the beginning of his speech was that the compensation was not really sufficient to compensate the stock owners.
§ LORD STRACHIEI was not complaining as regards that. I said that no doubt they gave the largest amount possible, but in the circumstances of the low prices they could not give what would really be the value. What I laid most emphasis on was that it would ruin a man's business and that it was difficult to replace these cattle.
§ EARL DE LA WARRI appreciate the noble Lord's point. I did not think he was complaining. It struck me that if others read his remarks they might take it, if I said nothing, that the compensation was not sufficient. As a matter of fact, the sufferers are compensated according to the full market value, even if the stock are pedigree stock. That means that if prices are low to-day, the compensation is low, and equally the re- 445 placement value is low. The only pedigree breeder to whom I have spoken of this matter in the last month or so, who has just had his stock slaughtered, told me he was more than satisfied with the compensation he had received. I fully admit the point of the noble Lord, that a man who has taken possibly a lifetime in building up a herd, can never in fact feel himself truly compensated for that tremendous effort.
The recent outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease in Somerset involved eight infected premises on which disease was declared to exist between October 23 and October 27, and the secondary outbreaks were due to the spread of infection from the initial case, before the imposition of restrictions on October 23, when that case was first discovered. Twenty days have now elapsed since the last case in that County and it may therefore be assumed that the disease has been successfully eradicated by our established policy of immediate slaughter, accompanied by restrictions on the movement and marketing of stock in the infected area, and if—this may interest the noble Lord—no further outbreak occurs, the intention is to withdraw the restrictions entirely on the 25th of this month. That in nowise commits us to any action at the moment because anything might happen. The usual exhaustive inquiries were conducted as to the source of infection, but without any definite evidence being obtained identifying the origin.
Some facts were, however, revealed. Firstly, bones were found in the field in which the infected animals were grazed. They were probably carried there by a dog from adjoining cottages, the occupiers of which obtained meat and bones from local butchers, but the evidence tends to show that these bones were from home-killed carcases. As regards feeding stuff the only item requiring investigation was some pig-meal supplied by a large manufacturing firm, but there was no reason to suggest that the goods supplied by this firm were in any way implicated. As regards the question of sacks, several sacks were found on the premises labelled "Produce of France.' They were obtained from a local cider factory, prior, however, to the first importations of cider apples this year. They must, therefore, have been 446 imported from France some considerable time ago. Further, the sacks were kept where neither cattle nor pigs had access to them. The onset of the disease in the first animal only four days after the arrivals of the sacks, would suggest that as a means of indirect infection, the sacks were unlikely to be responsible for the introduction of the virus.
In September, 1932, the Somerset County Council suggested that foot-and-mouth disease might be introduced by bags containing apples, large quantities of which were imported for cider making from the Continent. The Ministry carefully examined the circumstances connected with the initial outbreaks of this disease over a number of years but could find no evidence incriminating sacks used in this trade. It is the invariable practice of the Ministry on the occurrence of an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease, to conduct exhaustive inquiries with a view to ascertaining the origin of each initial outbreak, that is every outbreak for which there is no discoverable connection with any other case in this country. The inquiries embrace investigations into the movements of animals, rodents, persons, vehicles, etc., and also into the source of supply of animal feeding stuffs, household purchases of meat, vegetables and other produce, sacks, meat wrappers, packing materials, etc., brought on to the infected premises or into the locality, and the presence of refuse dumps in the vicinity.
As regards the other four recent centres of disease during the past month in the outbreak at Barkway, Hertfordshire, the owner was cutting up and distributing imported meat on his premises, and in the Wirksworth (Derbyshire) case, imported meat scraps were involved. Suspicion in these two cases would therefore be attached to imported meat, although this could not definitely be proved. On the other hand the cases in the Isle of Ely and Lincolnshire approximately at the same time revealed no clue whatever to the source of infection, no imported meat or other imports from abroad being involved, nor could any connection be traced between these cases and the Hertfordshire series of outbreaks.
The most potent means of the introduction and spread of foot-and-mouth disease is through the agency of live animals and the importation of live ani- 447 mals from all countries infected with foot-and-mouth disease is definitely prohibited. The other possible channels through which the virus may be introduced are:—Carcases or other animal products, feeding stuffs, hay and straw and packing materials, vegetables and fruit, migrating birds, and movements of human beings. In 1926 disease was definitely discovered in fresh pig carcases imported from Belgium and Holland in connection with outbreaks in Lanarkshire that year. As a consequence, the importation of fresh carcases from the Continent of Europe was prohibited by the Importation of Carcases (Prohibition) Order of that year. The effect of this Order has been appreciably to reduce the number of initial or primary invasions of the disease. Following that Order investigations were conducted by the Foot-and-Mouth Disease Research Committee which proved that the virus could remain infective in the bone marrow of chilled beef for forty-two days and in the bone marrow of frozen beef rather longer, and in pork, after dry or wet salting, for forty-two days. These results were discovered by laboratory experiment but the virus of the disease has never been definitely found in any imported carcase other than the fresh carcases imported from Europe in 1926, on which discovery the Ministry at once took action. Nevertheless, in view of the risks proved to exist by the experiments of the Research Committee, negotiations were entered into with the South American Governments of Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil and Chili, all of whom in consequence made regulations prohibiting the exportation to Great Britain of carcases or parts of carcases of animals affected with foot-and-mouth disease or of animals forming part of the same troop as the diseased animals. Special arrangements were made by those Governments for the inspection of the animals before slaughter and a recent inquiry has indicated that those regulations are being complied with.
As regards feeding stuffs, in addition to the inquiries made in each initial case, a special inquiry was conducted in the series of outbreaks some years ago, when outbreaks were more numerous, into the character and origin of the feeding stuffs used in those cases and the conclusion was reached that the possibility of feeding stuffs being the origin of in- 448 fection in any general sense was extremely remote. Further, the process, of manufacture of linseed and cottonseed cakes in this country includes the subjection of the seeds to a temperature sufficient to kill the virus of foot-and-mouth disease. Further, although Scotland is a big consumer of artificial feeding stuffs unexplained outbreaks of the disease occur very rarely in that country. The importation of hay and straw for use as fodder or litter for animals from infected countries is prohibited by the Foreign Hay and Straw Order of 1912. These materials may be used, however, as packing for imported goods and, although this packing is not entirely free from risk, the danger is probably exaggerated and adequate protection against it has been provided by the Foot-and-Mouth Disease (Packing Materials) Orders of 1925 and 1926, which prohibit all such packing material, whether of home or foreign origin, from being brought into contact with animals and require its destruction when its use as packing is finished.
As regards foreign vegetables inquiries show that in only five cases over a period of ten years could imported vegetables possibly have been involved in initial outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease and in four of these hotel refuse and swill containing scraps of foreign meat were also used, and it is equally possible that the latter might have been the origin of the disease. In the remaining case some of the vegetables were imported in sacks which might have been contaminated, but in that case also other circumstances existed pointing to possible alternative methods of infection. It was impossible really to bring infection home to any one cause. The noble Lord suggested that birds are not an important source of infection, but we have to admit that they are one possible cause. Birds are capable of carrying infection over comparatively short distances and it is highly probable that in this country infection is sometimes spread in this manner. It is doubtful, however, whether migratory birds are the usual, or have been a common vehicle of infection from abroad. The initial outbreaks in this country do not correspond regularly with the migratory seasons. The relative freedom of Scotland and Ireland from initial outbreaks of obscure origin supports this view. As I have mentioned Ireland perhaps I might at this point inform the 449 noble Lord that I have made inquiries on the point of his question with regard to Ireland. We are satisfied that Ireland is free at the present moment. There is no quarantine, hut in our attempts to trace these outbreaks we have been quite satisfied—I can say this officially and definitely—that there has been no importation of the disease in recent periods from Ireland. The introduction of infection from the Continent by human beings who may be in direct contact with the virus shortly before leaving for this country is a possible method. No outbreak has been traced to this source.
I am afraid I have made a very long speech on this subject but it seems to me to be a most important subject which should be dealt with as fully as possible. Your Lordships will realise that it is extremely difficult—in fact, usually impossible—to obtain very conclusive evidence as to the manner in which this disease is introduced. Often a week elapses between the introduction of the virus and the reporting of the case. Consequently there is ample time for material Evidence to be lost because the disease does not show itself immediately. I can, however, assure your Lordships that every possible step is taken to discover the origin from the evidence available in each case. Some of your Lordships may think that we frequently read in the newspapers of such outbreaks, but the reason we read of them is really that they are such rare occurrences in this country.
If we attempt to start comparing the number of outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease in this country with those in other countries where no real steps are taken to deal with this matter, I am sure your Lordships will realise what a tremendous difference there is in this country. The Ministry is determined to continue taking every step to deal with this scourge, and I can only say that we are fortunate in having a most devoted band of officials, who devote themselves to this task. One of the few satisfactory events of the last month or two in connection with the last few outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease was the receipt of a number of letters from farmers and breeders who had suffered from the scourge and had their herds slaughtered. Every one of them paid a very high tribute to the thoroughness and determination, and also to the courtesy, of our officials, and I can assure your Lordships that they were letters 450 which made one feel very proud of working with the Department.
§ LORD STRACHIEMy Lords, I am very much obliged to the noble Earl for the very useful information that he has given to the House on the matter, and the great care with which he has gone into the whole question. I can at once say that I entirely agree with him as regards the way his officials act. In the old days I had something to do with them, and I know how they labour night and day; but however determined and efficient his staff may be, it does not prevent outbreaks occurring in this country, and the only thing that I regret with regard to the statement he has made is that no answer has been made to my inquiry whether the Minister of Agriculture would not carefully go into the question of how Canada and America are now able completely to keep out this disease. It is no good saying that we can stamp it out with a great deal of expense and trouble. I am sure he would have given satisfaction to agriculturists if he were able to give an indication that the Ministry was prepared to go into the matter in order to see whether anything has been left undone which might have been clone to stop this dreadful infliction of foot-and-mouth disease. I would therefore ask him whether he will urge the Minister to make inquiries how it is that for many years the disease has been kept out of Canada and America, although at one time it was breaking out continuously, just as in this country. I would ask leave to withdraw my Motion.
Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.