HL Deb 23 May 1933 vol 87 cc984-7

Amendments reported (according to Order).

Clause 1:

Contributions by rubber manufacturers and application thereof.

1.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, a contribution at the rate for the time being applicable under this Act shall be paid to the Research Association of British Rubber Manufacturers (hereafter in this Act referred to as "the Association") by every manufacturer in respect of all rubber of a description specified in the first column of the First Schedule to this Act, which is delivered to him on or after the first day of July, nineteen hundred and thirty-three, whether in pursuance of a contract of sale or otherwise:

Provided that, if a manufacturer proves that a full contribution has already been paid under this Act in respect of any rubber so delivered to him, no contribution shall be payable by him in respect of that rubber, or, in the case of a partial contribution, the balance only of the contribution shall be payable by him.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF EDUCATION (LORD IRWIN) moved, in the proviso in subsection (1), to leave out all words after "Provided that, if a manufacturer proves" and insert: in respect of any rubber so delivered to him—

  1. (a) that the contribution has already been paid under this Act, or
  2. (b) that a payment has already been made under this Act on account of that contribution,
no contribution or, as the case may be, the balance only of that contribution remaining unpaid shall be payable by him.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this is a drafting Amendment to carry out the intention of an Amendment which I provisionally accepted in Committee on the motion of Lord Bertie of Thame and I hope that he will think that it does so. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Clause 1 page 1 line 16, leave out from ("proves") to the end of line 21, and insert the said new words.—(Lord Irwin.)

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

My Lords, I am much obliged to my noble friend and his advisers for perfecting my feeble attempt.

On Question, Amendment agreed to. Clause 3:

Appointment and duties of coffee audit of accounts.

(2) No person shall be qualified to be appointed to the office of collector unless he is a chartered or incorporated accountant, and no person shall be appointed to or dismissed from that office except with the approval of the Department.

VISCOUNT EMBANKmoved, in subsection (2), to leave out "chartered or incorporated" and insert "qualified." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I should like first of all to apologise for not having sent in these Amendments earlier, because I happened to be in Scotland and could not get them away till yesterday. The noble Lord, Lord Irwin, has been good enough to say, however, that he would allow me to move my Amendments to-day. I would ask your Lordships to look at the' Amendments together, because then it will be easier to explain them. I am proposing to move Amendments to Clauses 3, 4 and 7. Under the Bill a collector is to be appointed to administer the Bill. That collector will be a certified chartered or incorporated accountant. The appointment is made under Clause 3. Under Clause 4 there are also certain acts to be performed by a chartered or incorporated accountant in connection with the signature of certifi3ates signed under the Third Schedule.

The point is that if the words "chartered or incorporated" accountant remain in the Bill they will restrict the number of accountants who are qualified to hold either of these posts. There are in this country a number of very reputable and well known societies and bodies of accountants which are accepted in connection with municipal corporations and other important bodies of that kind, for the auditing of their accounts. Indeed in connection with a Bill which is at present before another House, called the Municipal Corporations Audit Bill, the Parliamentary Secretary of the Ministry of Health, as recently as May 19 said: It does mean, however, that the status of all the societies in the Schedule has been very carefully weighed, examined and approved, and, so far as the Ministry of Health is concerned, we can recommend any local authority to appoint as professional auditor anyone belonging to any of the bodies whose names appear in the Schedule. The names which appear in the Schedule of that Bill are exactly the same as the names set out in my Amendment to Clause 7—namely, the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales, the Society of Incorporated Accountants and Auditors, the Society of Accountants in Edinburgh, the Institute of Accountants and Actuaries in Glasgow, the Society of Accountants in Aberdeen and—I should like to make a slight alteration in the next line by inserting the word "certified" in my Amendment —the London Association of Certified Accountants Limited, and the Corporation of Accountants Limited.

I venture to hope that the noble Lord will accept this Amendment to Clause 3, and, subsequently, the other Amendments, in view of the fact that the Government have already, through this other measure to which I have referred, the Municipal Corporations Audit Bill, agreed that all these societies are capable of performing the duties of a chartered or incorporated accountant. In order to put this matter right I therefore beg to move that the words "chartered or incorporated" in subsection (2) be left out, and the word "qualified" inserted instead. If that were done also in Clause 4, and the additional subsection be added to Clause 7, explaining what a qualified accountant means, in the terms of the societies whose names I have read out, that would carry my object into effect.

Amendment moved— Clause 3, page 3, lines 30 and 31, leave out ("chartered or incorporated") and insert ("qualified").—(Viscount Elibank.)

LORD IRWIN

My Lords, I shall be pleased to accept the Amendment moved by my noble friend. I understand that the two subsequent Amendments are consequential and if he moves them in the form suggested with the addition of the word "certified," I will accept them also.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 4 [Accounts to be rendered by manufacturers]:

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 5, line 17, leave out ("chartered or incorporated") and insert ("qualified").—(Viscount Elibank.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 7 [Interpretation]:

VISCOUNT ELIRANK

My Lords, I beg to move my last Amendment.

Amendment moved—

Page 6, line 41, at end insert: 'Qualified accountant'" means a member of one or more of the following bodies namely:—

The Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales;

The Society of Incorporated Accountants and Auditors;

The Society of Accountants in Edinburgh;

The Institute of Accountants and Actuaries in Glasgow.

The Society of Accountants in Aberdeen;

The London Association of Certified Accountants Limited;

The Corporation of Accountants Limited."—(Viscount Elibank.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.