§ Constitution and Proceedings of Wheat Commission.
§ 1. The Commission shall be a body corporate by the name of the "Wheat Commission" with a common seal and power to hold land without licence in mortmain, and shall consist of a chairman, a vice-chairman, and fifteen other persons appointed by the Minister.
§ 2. Of the members of the Commission other than the chairman and vice-chairman there shall be appointed—
- (a) as representing the interests of the growers of home-grown millable wheat four members;
- (e) as representing the interests of consumers of flour, five members, of whom one at least shall be appointed as representing the interests of bakers of bread;
§ LORD BAYFORD moved, in paragraph 1, to leave out "fifteen" and insert "seventeen". The noble Lord said: The object of this Amendment is to make the representation of the growers upon this Commission greater than that of the consumers. I believe that was originally the case before the Bill was altered in another place. The object of this Bill is to help the producer and I admit that I want to weight the scales a little on the producer's side. I do not think any injustice will be done thereby and it was the arrangement which originally conmended itself to the Government.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 28, line 8, leave out ("fifteen") and insert ("seventeen").—(Lord Bayford.)
§ LORD BANBURY OF SOUTHAMI have an Amendment of a somewhat similar character to that of my noble friend. I should hope that the Government would agree to accept the two 281 Amendment standing in my name later on and not to accept this Amendment, which would increase the number of the Commission. Unless I am mistaken the original number was thirteen. It seems to me to be a pity to increase that number to seventeen. If the noble Earl will accept my Amendment the Committee would still remain at fifteen, but farmers or producers would have six representatives out of fifteen and the consumers would have three. The Bill is not intended for the benefit of the consumer. The Bill is intended for the benefit of the producer, and if you are only going to give the producers four out of fifteen places you place them in a very weak position. My proposal is to give them six and to reduce the number of consumers from five to three. My belief—again I speak subject to correction—is that in the original Bill the number of consumers was only two; it certainly was not more than three. If therefore ray Amendment is carried all that happens is that I have made a proposal which is what the Government desire.
§ LORD CRANWORTHI hope the noble Earl will accept this because it seems to me such a common-sense point of view.
§ EARL DE LA WARRWhen the noble Lord, Lord Bayford, moved his Amendment I confess to having felt some sympathy with him, but when the noble Lord, Lord Banbury of Southam, weighed in and suggested that the alteration should be at the expense of the consumers' representatives I confess to have lost some of that sympathy. The noble Lord says that after all the Bill is for the producers and he asks why should the consumers be represented. But that is precisely the reason why the consumers should have representation. I cannot see why, when the farmers are being presented with this sum of money, they cannot allow the consumers to be represented. I would like to ask whether the farmers or their representative have asked the noble Lord to move this Amendment. So far as I know the farmers have completely accepted the settlement that was come to with regard to the composition of this Commission. The negotiations between the various interests 282 as to its composition have been pursued with complete good will on all sides and, while naturally any element would like greater representation, we have no evidence that the farmers are dissatisfied.
§ LORD BANBURY OF SOUTHAMI was asked to move this by the representative of the farmers in the House of Commons. He spoke about it in the House himself.
§ EARL DE LA WARRHe was speaking as an individual. There is no resolution of the National Farmers' Union asking for this. Another point is that under the terms of the Bill the farmers have to pay for the expenses of the Commission and the more cumbrous you make it the more expensive it will be. You will be doing a poor turn to the farmers by increasing the expenses.
§ LORD BANBURY OF SOUTHAMThe fact that the farmers have got to pay is a strong reason for giving them a larger representation.
§ On Question, Amendment negatived.
§
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, after paragraph 1, to insert: "( ) The Minister may remove any member of the Commission from his office for inability or misbehaviour." The noble Viscount said: These words appear in Clause 63, subsection (11), of the Road Traffic Act. On the Report stage of the Road Traffic Bill the noble Earl, Lord Russell, accepted the principle of an Amendment moved by me to cover this point, though he said it was rather unhappily worded and reserved the right, which he exercised, to alter the wording to the form of words which is now under your Lordships' consideration. I should like to try to forestall the reply which the noble Earl will probably give. I think he may say that the point is covered under paragraph 3 of the Schedule, which states that:
Every member of the Commission shall hold and vacate office in accordance with such conditions as may have been determined by the Minister before his appointment.
But it is much better to have it in the Bill because then it can give no offence. If it is put into the contract it may cause offence. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
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§
Page 28, line 9, at end insert:
("( ) The Minister may remove any member of the Commission from his office for inability or misbehaviour").—(Viscount Bertie of Theme.)
§ EARL DE LA WARRThe noble Viscount really answered himself in the very words I was going to use—that the matter is provided for already under paragraph 3 of the First Schedule, which enables the Minister to attach such conditions as he thinks fit. It will be better to leave it at that.
§ VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAMEIt may give offence if it is put in the contract, but it cannot do so if these words are inserted in the Bill while the names of the Commissioners are unknown.
§ On Question, Amendment negatived.
§ LORD BANBURY OF SOUTHAM had placed on the Paper an Amendment in paragraph 2 (a) to leave out "four" and insert "six." The noble Lord said: It is no use my moving this Amendment because we did not divide on Lord Bayford's previous Amendment.
§ LORD CRANWORTH, on behalf of Lord Bayford, moved to add to paragraph 2: "including in the case of the persons specified in sub-paragraph (a) of this paragraph the Agricultural Advisory Committee for England and Wales constituted under the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries Act, 1919." The noble Lord said: I move this Amendment very willingly, because I shall be very glad to see the Agricultural Advisory Committee given some work to do. I have long been wondering why a body so well-manned and so representative of farming was so little used. If they are given a little work it would be some justification for their existence.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 28, line 30, at end, insert ("including in the case of the persons specified in sub-paragraph (a) of this paragraph the Agricultural Advisory Committee for England and Wales constituted under the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries Act, 1919").—(Lord Cranworth.)
§ EARL DE LA WARRI wonder, if I told the noble Lord that we are finding this Committee work in another way, whether it would persuade him to withdraw the Amendment?
§ LORD CRANWORTHThat depends upon what the work is.
§ EARL DE LA WARRThat I cannot say at the moment, but I would say that the Agricultural Advisory Committee for England and Wales does speak only for England and Wales, and the Minister of Agriculture and the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Home Secretary are working jointly. Therefore the Amendment would mean asking the Secretary of State for Scotland to accept advice from the Agricultural Advisory Committee for England and Wales.
§ LORD CRANWORTHI feel it the more difficult to press this Amendment because I am a member of the Committee. I will therefore ask leave to withdraw.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Schedule 1 agreed to.
§ Remaining Schedule agreed to.