HL Deb 27 May 1930 vol 77 cc1074-85

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]

Clause 1:

Procedure for valuing railway hereditaments in England.

(3) For the purposes of this Act— Railway company" means a railway company to which this Act for the time being applies;

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE) moved, in subsection (3), in the definition of "Railway company" after "means," to insert "except in the First Schedule to this Act." The noble Lord said: Perhaps I might explain the number of Amendments that appear on the Paper in my name. They are really drafting Amendments, or Amendments clarifying particular points, or explanatory Amendments of small technical points of detail; but there is no alteration whatever in the general principles and the chief clauses of the Bill. The alterations have been due to the fact that the authorities concerned, the local government authorities and the railway companies, have been in very close consultation with the Government, and the Bill has gone through very careful scrutiny up to the last moment. Agreement has been reached on all the clauses of the Bill. In cases where there is anything more than an actual drafting Amendment I will make any explanation that may be necessary. There is an Amendment down in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Cranbrook. The Government are quite prepared to accept that Amendment if he will be good enough to move it after Clause 18 instead of in the place where he has put it down.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 2, after ("means") insert ("(except in the First Schedule to this Act)").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendments moved— Page 2, line 14, leave out ("railway"). Page 2, line 15, at end insert ("not being a road transport, sea transport or air transport undertaking").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 2:

Constitution of Railway Assessment Authority and Anglo-Scottish Railways Assessment Authority.

(2) The Chairman of the Railway Assessment Authority shall be an experienced lawyer to be appointed by the Lord Chancellor, and of the other members of the Authority three shall be appointed by the Minister at his discretion and one shall be appointed by him on the recommendation of each of the following bodies, that is to say, the London County Council, the County Councils Association, the Association of Municipal Corporations, the Metropolitan Boroughs Standing Joint Committee, the Urban District Councils Association and the Rural District Councils Association.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved to add to subsection (2) "It shall be lawful for the Lord Chancellor, if he think fit, to remove any member of the authority." The noble Viscount said: This is the usual sort of clause to have in this class of Bill. It is always rather difficult to choose a precedent, and if one takes the Port of London Authority one is told one is impolite. This particular precedent I have taken from the Railway and Canal Commissions Bill, and as appeals lie from this court to the Railway and Canal Commission I think this is the best precedent to follow.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 6, at end insert the said words.—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

I am afraid that I cannot accept this Amendment. I think the noble Viscount will see that really it is not necessary. The present assessment authorities are chosen by the county council; and there is no question of any interference from the Crown in that case. The assessment authority to be set up under the Bill will be appointed by the Minister of Health. Six of the members will be from local authority organisations, and three members will be appointed by the Minister at his discretion, but of course in consultation with the local authorities. They will be practically all elected members, and only the Chairman, who is to be an experienced lawyer, is to be appointed by the Lord Chancellor. The Government consider it would be an invidious responsibility to place on the Lord Chancellor the authority which the noble Viscount desires by this Amendment. I am afraid we cannot accept it.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

Do I understand from the noble Lord that no authority whatever is to be able to get rid of these people? The Railway and Canal Commission surely is a higher Court, and in that case the Lord Chancellor has the power to get rid of the members. I ask the noble Lord to consider the matter.

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

I think it is unnecessary for us to consider that there will be so many undesirable people on this body that it will be necessary to get rid of them constantly. There is no difficulty on the present county assessment committees. There is no need for Crown interference in order to get rid of one of the members there, and there seems to be no need whatever to have this special provision in the Bill.

On Question, Amendment negatived.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 [Determination of net annual value of railway undertaking carried on in England but not in Scotland]:

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

The Amendments in my name are drafting.

Amendments moved— Page 6, line 17, leave out ("a joint railway undertaking") and insert ("a share in a joint undertaking"). Page 8, line 15, leave out ("railway").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 5 and 6 agreed to.

THE EARL OF CRANBROOK

With the permission of the Committee, I will move the Amendment which I have put down after Clause 6 after Clause 18.

Clause 7 [Application of Third Schedule]:

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

The Amendment in my name is drafting.

Amendment moved— Page 11, line 23, after ("railway") insert ("company's").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 7, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 8 agreed to.

Clause 9 [Appeals]:

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

The Amendments in my name are drafting.

Amendments moved— Page 13, line 5, after ("railway") insert ("company's"). Page 13, line 6, after ("Scotland") insert ("so far as those receipts are to be ascertained by the Joint Authority ").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 9, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 10 agreed to.

Clause 11:

Alterations of railway valuation roll during quinquennial period.

11.—(1) If at any time during a quinquennial period it is represented to the Railway Assessment Authority by the railway company concerned or by the rating authority of the rating area or the county valuation committee of the county within which the hereditament is situate, or by any person aggrieved, that—

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULEREDE moved, after paragraph (b), to insert: (c) any premises which have been treated by the Authority as forming part of a railway hereditament occupied by the company, or as not forming part of any railway hereditament so occupied, ought to be treated differently by reason of some change which has, since the date on which the draft of the relevant part of the roll was settled, occurred in the occupation, or the character of the occupation, of those premises; or

The noble Lord said: This provides machinery for altering entries in the railway valuation roll during a quinquennium on certain specified grounds. It is conceivable that some hereditament might alter its character, and be no longer a railway hereditament, in which case some change would have to be made. This is the machinery, if necessary, for making the change.

Amendment moved— Page 17, line 10, at end insert the said paragraph.—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE moved, at the end of subsection (1), to insert: (2) In any case where a representation is made under this section with respect to any hereditament, the Railway Assessment Authority shall give notice of their determination to the railway company concerned, to the county valuation committee of the county and the rating authority of the rating area within which the hereditament is situate, and to any person who appeared before the Authority as a party on the consideration of the representation.

The noble Lord said: This Amendment has been moved at the instance of the County Councils Association because they felt it was only fair that notification should be given in order that any appeal that might be made under it should not be forfeited by the authority in question not having been notified by the assessment authority of their determination. We agreed to insert this Amendment to cover that case:

Amendment moved— Page 17, line 35, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 11, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 12:

Valuation lists to conform to railway valuation roll.

(2) Where the Railway Assessment Authority have made any alteration in any part of a railway valuation roll, either in revising that part or at a date subsequent to the revision thereof, they shall send particulars of the alteration to the railway company concerned and to every assessment committee and rating authority in England within whose assessment area or rating area there is any hereditament affected by the alteration, and every assessment committee which receives such information shall cause any necessary amendments of the valuation list to be made.

(3) For the purposes of the liability of a railway company to rates, any amendment of a valuation list made under this section shall have effect—

  1. (i) in the case of an amendment made in consequence of the completion or the revision of any part of the roll or of the decision of any appeal which was outstanding at the date of such revision, as from the date upon which, under the provisions of this Act the roll is to come into operation;
  2. (ii) in the case of an amendment made after the revision of the relevant part of the roll in consequence of a representation under the last preceding section, as from the first day of the period in respect of which the general rate current at the date when the representation was served upon the Railway Assessment Authority was made:
Provided that, in the case of an amendment consisting of the inclusion in the valuation list of a newly-erected or newly-constructed hereditament, or an altered hereditament which has been out of occupation on account of structural alterations or of the amendment in the valuation list of the value of any hereditament, where the value thereof has been affected by the making of structural alterations, or by the total or partial destruction of any building or other erection by fire or other physical cause, the amendment shall have effect only as from the date when the new or altered hereditament came into occupation, or as from the happening of the event giving rise to the alteration of the value of the hereditament, as the case may be; (iii) in the case of an amendment made under subsection (4) of the last preceding section, as from the first day of the period in respect of which the next general rate is made; and where, in pursuance of this section there is made any amendment of a valuation list which affects the amount of any rate levied in respect of any railway hereditament in accordance with the list, the difference, if too much has been paid, shall be repaid or allowed, or if too little has been paid, shall be paid and may be recovered as arrears of the rate.

(4) Where an assessment committee make under this section any amendment of a valuation list, they shall make any necessary amendment in the totals of values shown in that list, and in the case of a rating area in London, any amendment so made in a total of values shall, notwithstanding anything contained in the Valuation (Metropolis) Act, 1869, have effect—

  1. (i) if the date as from which the amendment has effect under the last preceding subsection is the sixth day of April in any year, as from the said date; and
  2. (ii) in any other case, as from the sixth day of April next following the said date;
and where any such amendment in a total of values affects the amount of any sum already assessed on, or any contribution already required from, that area by the London County Council or by the Receiver for the Metropolitan Police District, the difference shall be paid or, as the case may be, repaid or allowed.

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

The first Amendment in my name is drafting.

Amendment moved— Page 19, line 14, after ("alteration") insert ("and of the grounds upon which it was made").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shutbrede.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE moved to leave out all words in subsection (2) after the last "alteration," subsection (3), and subsection (4) down to and including "any Amendment so made," and to insert: (3) Every assessment committee which receives any such information as is mentioned in the last preceding subsection shall cause to be made such amendments of any valuation list (including any valuation list which has ceased to be in force since the date as from which under the provisions of this subsection the amendments are to have effect) as are necessary to secure that the hereditaments, values and particulars which appear in the roll, appear also in the list, and shall also cause to be made any necessary consequential amendments. For the purposes of the liability of a railway company to rates, an amendment made under this subsection shall in relation to any rate have effect—

  1. (i) in the case of an amendment occasioned by the completion or the revision of the relevant part of the roll, or the decision of any appeal which was outstanding at the date of the revision of that part, as from the commencement of the quinquennial period;
  2. (ii) in the case of an amendment occasioned by an alteration made in any part of the roll after the revision thereof upon a representation under paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (d) of subsection (1) of the last preceding section, as from the happening of the event which gave rise to the representation, or as from the first day of the period in respect of which the general rate current at the date of the service of the representation upon the Authority was made, whichever may be the later;
  3. (iii) in the case of an amendment occasioned by an alteration made in any part of the roll after the revision thereof upon a representation under paragraph (e) of the said subsection (1), as from the first day of the period in respect of which the general rate current at the date of the service of the representation upon the Authority was made;
  4. (iv) in the case of an amendment occasioned by an alteration made in the roll under subsection (4) of the last preceding section, as from the first day of the period in respect of which the next general rate is made.

(4) Where the effect of any information given under subsection (2) of this section is that any premises previously treated by the Authority as being a railway hereditament, or part of a railway hereditament, have ceased to be so treated, such amendments may be made of any valuation list (including any valuation list which has ceased to be in force since the date as from which under the provisions of this subsection the amendments are to have effect) by way of proposal or, in London, by way of provisional or supplemental list, as are necessary to secure that those premises and correct values and particulars in respect thereof appear in the appropriate part of the valuation list.

For the purposes of the liability of any person to rates an amendment made under this subsection shall in relation to any rate have effect, in a case where the variation in the treatment of the premises is due to a change occurring during the quinquennial period in the occupation, or the character of the occupation, of the premises, as from the date of that change, and, in any other case, as from the commencement of the quinquennial period.

(5) Where under this section there is made any amendment of a valuation list which affects the amount of any rate levied in respect of any hereditament in accordance with the list, the difference, if too much has been paid, shall be repaid or allowed to the ratepayer, or if too little has been paid, shall be paid by and may be recovered from him as if it were arrears of the rate.

(6) Where under this section there is made any amendment of a valuation list, the assessment committee shall make any necessary amendment in the totals of values shown in that list.

(7) In the case of a rating area in London, any amendment made under this section"

The noble Lord said: This Amendment appears to be a very long one, but as a matter of fact it is only a recast of the subsections of this clause in order to meet various points of detail and drafting Amendments that have been made. It does not materially alter the sense of the clause.

Amendment moved— Page 19, leave out from the end of line 17 to the second ("in") in line 27 on page 20, and insert the said new subsections. —(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE moved, in subsection (4), to leave out "Receiver for the Metropolitan Police District" and to insert "Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis." The noble Lord said: This is a drafting Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 20, line 39, leave out ("Receiver for the Metropolitan Police District") and insert ("Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede).

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 12, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 13:

Preparation and approval of apportionment scheme.

(3) The Railway Assessment Authority shall, as soon as they have prepared a scheme in accordance with the provisions of this section, give public notice thereof in the prescribed form and manner, and after hearing and considering any representations which may be made to them by any railway company, any county valuation committee or the council of any county borough within such period, not being less than two months, as may be specified in the notice, shall make in the scheme such modifications, if any, as they consider necessary and submit the scheme to the Minister.

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

The first three Amendments in this clause are drafting. I beg to move.

Amendments moved— Page 21, line 38, after ("railway") insert ("company's"). Page 21, line 39, leave out ("the") and insert ("such an"). Page 22, line 6, leave out ("a railway undertaking") and insert ("the undertaking of a railway company").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE moved, in subsection (3), after "borough," to insert "or any other rating authority whose interests are in the opinion of the Railway Assessment Authority specially affected." The noble Lord said: This is an Amendment to cover those places which are not actually county boroughs but have great railway interests, such, for instance, as Crewe and Swindon.

Amendment moved— Page 22, line 18, after ("borough") insert ("or any other rating authority whose interests are in the opinion of the Railway Assessment Authority specially affected ").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 13, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 14 [Assistance and information to be given to Railway Assessment Authority]:

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

I beg to move a drafting Amendment to this clause.

Amendment moved— Page 23, line 25, leave out ("railway undertaking") and insert ("undertaking of the company").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 14, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 15 to 18 agreed to.

THE EARL OF CRANBROOK moved, after Clause 18, to insert the following new clause:

Railway Assessment Authority to apportion value of railway hereditaments if required for certain purposes.

". Where by any enactment or by any scheme or order made under any enactment an assessment committee or rating authority are required or authorised to make any necessary apportionments of the values of hereditaments, the Railway Assessment Authority shall upon the request of the assessment committee or rating authority, as the case may be, make on their behalf the necessary apportionment of the net annual and rateable values of any railway hereditament, and an apportionment so made shall, for the purposes of the said enactment, have the same effect as if it had been made by the assessment committee or, as the case may be, by the rating authority."

The noble Earl said: This Amendment is really purely one of machinery to meet the case of certain rating authorities in London, which is divided up into several parishes each with special rates. This Amendment will enable the rating authorities to apportion the rate among the parishes.

Amendment moved— After Clause 18 insert the said new clause.—(The Earl of Cranbrook.)

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

We are quite prepared to accept this Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clauses 19 and 20 agreed to.

Clause 21 [Provisions as to value of Scottish portions of railway undertaking carried on in England and in Scotland]:

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

The Amendments to this clause which are on the Paper are all drafting Amendments with the exception of the third and following Amendments, which deal with special machinery with regard to appeals in Scotland, which has been assented to by the Scottish authorities.

Amendments moved— Page 26, line 17, after ("management") insert ("and of repairs to stations and buildings") Page 27, line 10, after ("such") insert ("average") Page 27, line 36, after ("railway") insert ("company's") Page 28, line 20, leave out from ("shall") to ("have") in line 22. Page 28, line 24, after ("thereby") insert ("respectively") Page 27, line 24, after ("conferred") insert ("on the railway, canal, or other company and on the county or burgh") Page 29, line 38 after ("railway") insert ("company's").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 21, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 22 [Interpretation]:

LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE

There are two drafting Amendments to this clause. I beg to move.

Amendments moved— Page 31, line 8, leave out ("a railway") and insert ("their"). Page 31, line 12, leave out ("railway").—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 22, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 23 agreed to.

First Schedule: