§ THE EARL OF ONSLOW rose to call attention to the condition of the Army, especially in regard to the diminution in strength, and to ask His Majesty's Government—
- 1. What their policy is in regard to the mechanisation of the Army;
- 2. What the present position is as regards the Officers Training Corps and whether any alteration is contemplated in regard to them;
- 3. Whether the establishment of cadets at Sandhurst and Woolwich is full;
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, a few weeks ago the noble Earl opposite in answer to a question which I put to him was able to give us a very satisfactory assurance, if I may say so, on the attitude of the Government towards the Territorial Army. During the course of that debate several other matters cropped up which were not perhaps quite germane, or if germane were not exactly 947 specifically directed to the Question which I asked. The noble Earl dealt with a great many of those matters—he was very generous in his reply and we are very grateful to him—but he told us that as the Army Estimates had not then been settled he was not able to give specific replies on all the various matters that were raised. The Army Estimates have now been published, so perhaps I may be allowed to ask for a little further information about the Army. The noble Earl told us that the Government adhered to the statement of intentions as to the Territorial Army which was made by my right hon. friend Sir Laming Worthington-Evans to the Central Council of Territorial Associations in 1925. That was very satisfactory. In the Estimates this year we see that the very considerable economies which they have made do not show a reduction in units. That seems to me—and I hope the noble Earl will be able to confirm it—to indicate that His Majesty's present Government hold the view that the existing number of cavalry and infantry units must not be cut clown. I trust I am right in my deduction.
§ But in spite of that there are two matters which seem to me rather disturbing in the Memorandum which accompanies the Estimates. The first of these is that in order to make the reduction a very heavy cut has been made in stores and in transport and supplies. I do not wish to be unduly critical in regard to this matter, because it is only the Government and the Army Council and their military advisers who are in full possession of all the facts and can say definitely whether such a heavy cut is really safe. And it is a very heavy cut. There is a reduction of £243,000 on Vote 6, for supplies, transport and remounts; £91,000 on Vote 8, for general stores, and no less than £540,000 on Vote 9, for war-like stores. That, of course, is a matter which is entirely within the responsibility of the Government and it is for them to decide whether such cuts are safe and right or whether they are not. I would like, however, to say one word on the subject—one word of warning, if I may. I know very well indeed what a temptation it is to try to make do for the year, to say: "We will put off renewals and replacement of stores for a year." But this may be false economy, because you 948 have got to make good the loss in the end. That is inevitable. If you do not it is a downright danger, because you have not stores adequate to meet your mobilisation needs, and if by any chance the unfortunate necessity arises for mobilisation you would not have the equipment ready and it would be impossible to mobilise the whole of your forces. So I do earnestly hope that in making these economies the Government have taken these matters into consideration.
§ There is another point. If we are assured that this cut is safe and that the Government have been quite correct in making these economies, I hope they will give the most careful consideration to store-keeping. I am a little bit afraid that there is a tendency in some quarters to economise in store-keeping, but the intricate and valuable and perishable articles which now form so large a part of our war-like stores render it most necessary that adequate and careful and skilled store-keepers should be employed to look after them. That is really true economy. I must say for myself—I am speaking now more of the Territorial Army—that I think storekeeping does require, especially in regard to such articles as leather, harness, instruments and so on, men who are skilled store-keepers; and I hope that, when my noble friend comes to look into his economies, he will spare the storekeepers as far as possible.
§ I turn to the second matter which gives me some cause for disquietude—a disquietude which is shared, as they have told us, by the Government themselves. I refer to the falling off in recruiting. We are told that the shortage amounts to some 10,000 men, and that, although an intake of 2,500 more has been estimated for, yet, if these actually materialise, they will not be sufficient to make good the shortage. I think this is an extremely serious state of affairs. We are told that you cannot allow the lowering of the physical standard, either dental or medical, so we are actually at bedrock and we cannot open the doors to recruiting by altering the medical standards. I sincerely hope the Government will do all they can—I am sure they will—to encourage recruiting during the next year. It seems rather peculiar that recruiting should have fallen in this way 949 when we see unemployment going up by leaps and bounds. The week before last more than 1,000 people lost their jobs every day, and last week that number was more than doubled. Yet the Army offers not only a means of livelihood and an assured pension, but, to men or ability, a great career—not only a military career, but one which may lead to good openings in civil life on leaving the Army. Although unemployment is rising, however, recruits are not readily forthcoming for the Army. I should like to say that I am very glad indeed that the Government have followed the policy of their predecessors in encouraging vocational training. I hope they will advertise and make as public as possible the opportunities for education which exist in the Army and for vocational training for jobs in civil life that are awaiting soldiers when they leave the Army. I think that, if this is known, it may serve to encourage recruiting.
§ I think we should all agree that it appears from the various sources of information at our disposal that the Regular Army, as it exists at present, has all it can do to carry out its peacetime functions and to supply the necessary troops for India, Egypt and various Colonial and foreign stations. This being so, if it is adequate at the moment, there is a very little margin for expansion if by any misfortune a considerable emergency should arise. If that considerable emergency were to arise, our sole means of expansion and our sole additional line of defence would lie in the Territorial Army. The more our military commitments grow and the more reductions the Regular Army is subjected to, the greater is the need for improving the Territorial Army. In fact at the present time it is strictly accurate to say that the Territorial Army is our sheet anchor in time of danger. I will return to that point, perhaps, in a moment.
§ I wish now to draw your Lordships' attention to the three Questions that I have put upon the Paper. The first is to ask what is the policy of His Majesty's Government with regard to the mechanisation of the Army. I venture to raise this Question because there have been various statements on the subject which perhaps have left people as obtuse as I am in some obscurity. We had a 950 very interesting debate the other day in which the noble Lord, Lord Thomson, took part, and he told us that there was a great field for economy in a wise policy of mechanisation. I entirely agreed with him, as I think did most of your Lordships, and I ventured to indicate my agreement at the time. But my point is this. The policy of mechanisation ought, I think, to be resorted to not merely for the purpose of economy. That is a very important purpose, but I hope that the noble Earl will be able to tell us that the Government follow the policy of mechanisation, not only for purposes of economy but also in order to increase the power and efficiency of the Army as a whole.
§
What they actually say is, perhaps, a trifle vague. They tell us that
the policy of mechanisation is being gradually extended as experience suggests and money permits.
That is not a very definite statement, but on the other hand, their concrete performances seem to be more satisfactory, because they tell us that the conversion of the 12th Lancers into a cavalry armoured car regiment is being proceeded with, and will be finished, I believe, by the end of the year. What is more important still, we are told that serious steps are being taken towards the mechanisation of the Territorial Army. I must say that those announcements are very satisfactory and seem to point to the fact that His Majesty's Government are in favour of a policy of mechanisation, not only on grounds of economy but with a view to securing the highest efficiency in the Army.
§ I come to my other points. I ventured to say just now that the more we reduce the Regular Army the more we come to rely for safety upon the Territorial Army. I am therefore glad to see that the Memorandum upon the Estimates re-echoed that which the noble Earl told us the other day—namely, that the Government realise how very important the Territorial Army is. Perhaps a little misgiving has been aroused in the minds of some of the Territorial Associations in regard to the revision of the clothing grant, and also the withdrawal of steel helmets, but that, if I may venture to say so, is not so important as the assurance that the broad policy of the Government is one that encourages the Territorial Army and recognises its great importance.
951§ There is one matter which, I think, is of particular importance. I refer to the reductions in the permanent staff. I will not enlarge upon that point at present, because there is a Motion upon the Paper that we shall have an opportunity of discussing at a later date. If you reduce the permanent staff, I rather fear that the efficiency of Territorial Army training may be impaired. It is the peacetime training of the Territorial Army that is of such paramount importance. Efficient peace-time training is far more important than mere success in recruiting large numbers. If mobilisation should occur, the Territorial Army cannot take the field until they have trained their post-mobilisation recruits. You have to recruit up to war strength and then train your recruits, and, in order to do so (this is particularly important) you must have a number of highly trained and efficient Territorial officers and non-commissioned officers—and this, of course, includes the permanent staff—who must be available immediately mobilisation takes place, in order to train their men who are actually in the ranks and the post-mobilisation recruits, so that they can take the field in the shortest possible space of time.
§ This brings me to my other two Questions. Admittedly we depend largely on post-mobilisation recruiting and training, and we must have ready for the emergency of mobilisation the best available brains and the highest military ability and talent in the officers of the Regular Army, because they supply the Higher Command, the General Staff, the Administration Staff and so forth. They must be of the highest quality that we are capable of attracting to the Army. We also require a potential reserve of junior officers to enable the Army to expand rapidly and supply drafts in ease of casualties. Of course, the former type of officer, the Regular Army officer or man, passes through Woolwich and Sandhurst. Of course we have the University officers, but the main number of them are from Woolwich and Sandhurst, and for expansion we go to the Officers Training Corps. As regards Woolwich and Sandhurst, there are disquieting rumours abroad, and that is why I have put down a Question to ask about numbers. It seems that the numbers of young men who wish to join the Army are not so 952 great as some years ago, and I am afraid that the public schools will be a rather less promising field for recruiting young officers. Generally speaking, there seems to be a lack of public interest in the Army. It is reflected also, perhaps, in the recruiting figures to which I have alluded, and that lack of interest may be not unnatural as a reaction after the War. In these days of industrial depression and crushing taxation, also, parents are perhaps not quite so keen that their sons should go into the Army. It is not a profession which brings much money, and they may prefer that their sons should follow some calling where they will earn better salaries.
§ Then there is also the fear of being "axed" some day. In spite of that fact, even that danger of being "axed," I say that the Army offers a magnificent career to the young man who wishes to join. There is also perhaps the fear that if he is "axed" he will have no prospect in civil life afterwards. I have spoken to friends of mine who left the Army after the War and they tell me that they have found no difficulty in getting useful, interesting and valuable employment in civil life, and I think possibly that noble Lords who have been in the Army and have had experience will agree with me that the Army is no bad start for a young man. I am glad to see that Lord Thomson agrees with me. I have a small suggestion to offer, although I do not know whether it is new. If there is difficulty in getting young men to join the Army through Woolwich and Sandhurst, would, it not be possible to develop University candidates? I think the noble Earl will agree with me that they are equally good, and my suggestion is that if you have difficulty in getting young men for Woolwich and Sandhurst you should offer Army scholarships at the Universities to young men, to encourage them to join. If you did that you would, of course, require them to pass an examination and to give an undertaking that they would serve for a certain number of years in the Army. You would follow the lines of the system of training Engineer officers at Cambridge. I do not think that the State would lose because, as I have said, the University officer is on a par with the other officer, and I think perhaps the fear of being "axed" might be lessened, because a man would have a general 953 University education to fall back upon if, for any unfortunate reason, he was deprived of his career in the Army. I venture to put that forward for consideration.
§ Now I come to the Officers Training Corps, which costs, I see, £161,000 a year. Do we get full value for that money? The object is to provide a reserve of young men available in case of expansion, if necessary, and also to provide a certain number who join the Army or the Territorial Army every year. We have satisfactory evidence that they do so join to a certain extent, because no fewer than 1,000 passed through last year. I am, however, a little disturbed at what I hear about the Officers Training Corps. I have asked public school-boys what they think about it. Some have given a satisfactory answer, but others say they do not think much of it. It would appear to depend upon the tone of the school and upon the boys. I wish to know whether the noble Earl has any information on that point. If we could encourage the Officers Training Corps boys to take their service seriously, then I think we should have rendered a service to the Army. Then as to the question of figures. We are told that the reduction in the Estimates is £605,000, but it is really rather larger, because it does not take into account the cessation of receipts from Germany and Egypt. The noble Earl tells me that comparable figures of gross expenditure are available, which show that the amount for last year was £48,881,000, and this year the Estimate is £47,538,000, and therefore the reduction is £1,343,000. I thought it well to make that perfectly clear with regard to the economy made in the Estimates. I beg to move.
§ EARL DE LA WARRMy Lords, I beg to move that the debate be suspended for the Royal Commission.
§ Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House adjourned during pleasure.
§ House resumed.