§ VISCOUNT MERSEY, who had given Notice that he would ask His Majesty's Government what progress is being made with State-aided emigration, and would move for Papers, said: My Lords, this question is not in any way a new one to your Lordships, and I do not profess to throw any particularly new light upon it, but I feel that having regard to the present conditions of unemployment and the depression in trade, any matter that may possibly be directed to mitigating those evils is deserving of your Lordships' attention, and I know of no better way of getting publicity for a matter of this nature than by submitting it to the House. I know very well that the question of State-aided emigration is an extremely difficult one. There are all sorts of difficulties in its way. There is the difficulty of the emigrant. He is a very difficult man to get hold of: generally you get the wrong one: the unemployable man is the last man to go: the good man possibly will go. Then there is the difficulty of vocation. Very often the artisan is not the man who is wanted, while the agriculturist is not forthcoming. There is the difficulty of physical condition, there is the difficulty of money, and there is difficulty from the Dominions.
§ The Dominions, or some of them, are full of objections. They do not want paupers, naturally, but now they do not want State-aided emigrants. It looks almost as if they only wanted those who paid Super-Tax. Whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer would welcome their emigration or not I do not know. The report of the Oversea Settlement Committee has only been in the hands of your Lordships to-day. Possibly the noble Lord who is to reply has had the advantage of an advance copy, but I only glanced through it this afternoon, and it is not a very encouraging document. Canada appears to be the only Dominion that really encourages State-aided emigration, and there the figures are extremely small. I think 70,000 persons went to Canada under different schemes in 1929. In Australia more and more of an embargo is being put upon emigration from this country, for various reasons—unemployment, the bad wool crop, and difficulties, perhaps, with the emigrants when they arrive. Of South 37 Africa nothing at all is said in the Report, and, though I hesitate to suggest it, Ireland never appears to be considered by these various bodies which concern themselves with emigration. I should have thought some consideration might be given to that.
§ LORD DANESFORTThey want to emigrate themselves from Southern Ireland.
VISCOUNT MERSEYWe should then have a good deal more opportunity of filling up their vacant places. A great deal of work, of course, has been done by Lord Lovat's tour in 1928, and by Sir Arthur Duckham, and a great deal of useful work is done here. But it seems to me that the result is woefully small. Yet the Americans go a great deal to Canada. I am told—I do not know with what truth—that. Germans go to the south of Ireland, and I should have thought that more vigour and an increased subsidy—that is what it is—could he devoted to encouraging emigration both to Canada and to Australia. Diplomacy, of course, would have to be resorted to in order to get the Commonwealth to agree.
I was reading the other day, on June 7, a letter on the front page of The Times from General Higgins, the present head of the Salvation Army. He says:—
The Salvation Army have always hold that the two problems"—that is, unemployment and emigration—should be dealt with on parallel lines and that the Army Founder's dictum of over forty years ago that of all the remedies propounded for the immediate and permanent relief of distress arising from unemployment emigration holds the field,' is still true.He goes on to say that many of the Dominions have a natural and very sincere desire to help the old country. He says further:—The unemployables are the last of all the people who want to leave these shores,and he testifies to the line qualities of the emigrants who do in fact go. Then he advocates the establishment of an Empire Development Board which will deal with unemployment and emigration pari passu.It is not for a private member of your Lordships' House to put forward suggestions, but, reading the Report of the Oversea Settlement Committee one does 38 wonder whether the policy of the acquisition of these large blocks of land, which the Canadian Pacific Railway, the Hudson River people and other bodies of Canada are willing to sell, might not be very largely developed. In one of the reports quoted in the Oversea Settlement Committee's Report stress is laid on the need for intensive cultivation in Australia. Then, again, is there nothing possible in the way of large town-planning, to which one could send artisans, or in the way of the development of agriculture, to which one could send those who have been trained on farms? The whole thing seems to be done in such a modest manner. Very little money is spent compared with the immense sums that are devoted to keeping the unemployed going in England. I should like to ask the noble Lord who will reply whether any attention is ever paid to the C3 class of men. Do we wily consider the emigration of the very best class of labourer or artisan? Is it not possible to do something with the settlement areas where the physical condition of those who migrate might be improved? And, as I have already said, is there nothing that could be done in South Africa or in Ireland?
This Government is in close relation with the great trade unions. Cannot the trade unions utilise their influence with their colleagues in the Colonies to facilitate the removal of some of the restrictions under which emigration is labouring at present? Every Government, I am sure, desires to develop this policy, and yet not only does emigration not increase to any extent comparable to the increase of unemployment here, but the emigration to Australia, at any rate, is diminishing, and the Report alludes to a strong feeling in Canada against State-aided emigration. Is that a thing that cannot be combated? Is propaganda in this country made real use of? One sees propaganda for enlistment in the Foot Guards—a very good thing. I look about me, but I never see any Government posters directing attention to the benefits of emigration to Canada or Australia. That does not seem to be advertised at all in any manner like the big foreign railway companies or the Underground Railway Company advertise. Nothing of that sort seems to be done. Are there pictures of farms in 39 Canada and in Australia? Do we draw attention to the very laudable offer that has been made of a £10 oversea passage? That is a real asset, which I think was obtained by Lord Lovat's tour. Is attention drawn to that?
These are only suggestions that I throw out to the noble Lord, and I am sure that I shall learn very much more from him than he can learn from me. I am no expert on this matter, but it does seem to me that anything that might be a palliative, a remedy of however modest a nature at this time, should be considered by the Government with the greatest attention. I welcome the appointment of Mr. Thomas to his new position. Vision and vigour are two of his principal qualities, and I believe that those are qualities which are needed to deal with a question of which, in my humble opinion, very much more use could have been made than has been or is being made. I hope that the noble Earl on the Bench below, who never contributes anything to your Lordships' debates without effect, will be able to say something more useful than I have been able to say. I beg to move.
§ EARL PEELMy Lords, I think your Lordships will agree that the noble Viscount is very wise and opportune in the occasion he has taken to bring this matter of emigration before your Lordships' House. As he has very justly observed, we have, unfortunately, to seek nowadays every way of dealing with our surplus and unemployed population, and I must say that the Government will De wise to direct their attention—no doubt they have already directed their attention—very gravely to this question. I do not propose to detain your Lordship,' for more than a few minutes, and I will comment only on two things. One is that as regards emigration or possibly State-aided emigration, I do not think there is a great deal of difference of opinion between the different Parties. At one time I think large sections of the Socialist Party were very much opposed to any sort of assistance or help or encouragement being given by the State to emigration, anyhow to parts of the Empire. I believe that is now changed and that between the different Parties there is, as I have said, no difference of opinion 40 although there is, perhaps, a difference of opinion as to methods on some of these questions.
I read the Report of the Committee on Oversea Settlement to which the noble Viscount has alluded. I am not sure that I read it with the same feeling of profound melancholy as the noble Viscount. No doubt the circumstances are rather distressful at the present moment with regard to emigration both in Australia and New Zealand. But I was glad to note that though Australia, unfortunately, for the reasons there set out, has had to restrict the opportunities for emigration from this country, nevertheless the Government of that country pronounced itself most strongly in favour of the principle of the better distribution of the white population of the Empire. That seems to me to be a great point, even though I regret that emigration to that country has been largely suspended.
I confess, and I speak because I have some little personal experience of the matter, that one must regard Canada as by far the best opportunity for emigration from this country at the moment. We have had great co-operation and assistance from Canada, not only from the Central Government and the Provincial Governments, but from all sorts of different bodies in that country. May I take this opportunity of saying how much we, and I think the country, owe to the great energy that Lord Lovat displayed when he was Under-Secretary for the Dominions, in that journey he made through Canada when he started a number of fresh suggestions and gave a new impetus, I think, to emigration from this country to Canada. Canada, of course, lies close to this country, far closer than the other Dominions. Those who have recently been to Canada and have travelled there and are aware of the marvellous possibilities for development which must take place and are taking place in that country, often wonder why far more of our inhabitants do not take advantage of the tremendous opportunities they must find there. I think the figures of the increase of emigration are to some extent satisfactory. I note that in 1928–9 there was an increase of from 55,000 to 65,000. As we are dealing with not very large figures, 41 I think that is really a very satisfactory increase. But we are being helped by the Government of Canada, because they have proceeded on the policy of limiting the number of what are called non-preferred European immigrants going into that country. I believe it is their policy still further to limit those numbers. There is a magnificent opportunity for us, and there is no reason at all why we should not fill up the gap so left and take advantage of our opportunities.
There is a further point to be considered. There is some danger, I think, and I would like to call the attention of the Government to it though, no doubt, they have considered it already, that under the National Origins Quota Act in the United States a far larger quota, rising I think from 34,000 to 65,000 for this country and for Northern Ireland, is being allotted at present, and there is some risk, possibly, that a large number of those who wish to leave our shores may go to the United States and that to some extent may limit the flow to Canada. We should all wish, of course, that this migration should be within the Empire. I was always very anxious that the fare to Canada should be reduced. I think the noble Viscount has alluded to the influence of the reduced fare of £10 to Canada, which was arranged with the steamship companies over here. I understand that that very largely accounts for the increase in the recent numbers of those who have gone to Canada.
Perhaps I am not altogether supporting the noble Viscount in his request for State-aided emigration when I mention my experience—I was going to say our experience in Canada, because I am speaking of the Empire Delegation of which I was a leader, some year and a half ago, consisting of representatives from the nine Parliaments of the Empire. We went as far as we could, when we were travelling across country, very fully into this question of emigration. We found certain unfortunate impressions in the minds of Canadians (I am not talking, of course, of Ministers, officials and so on), as to what we were doing in this country. They supposed that the masses of the people here were living on "doles." At that time we were able to refute the point and show that this was not so. We explained over and 42 over again in innumerable speeches, I am afraid, what was the real bearing and point of the Insurance Acts. I may say in passing, of course, that we could not at that time prophesy or look forward to what would happen under a subsequent Government and to their changes in the Insurance Acts.
May I repeat that the old problem which we always have to deal with is that we want to ship to Canada the unemployed from this country? We were able to point out that there were then, as there are now of course, large numbers of an admirable class of worker, fully capable of employment, but through the unfortunate circumstances of this country at the moment not fully employed. We did our best then to try to impress upon the minds of the people of Canada—it is the people of Canada I am dealing with—that there was no intention to dump upon them any of our unemployed or any of our unemployables. But I should like to make this point, for we were very much impressed by it when we went through Canada. There was, we found, a certain suspicion that people who were assisted by the Government, by loans from the Government and by land found for them by the Government, were not the kind of sturdy stock that they required in Canada. There are at present in Canada 10,000,000 people, in a vast country where everybody can fend for himself and make a fortune if he has the energy and capacity to do so, and they were suspicious of people who required State-subventions or State-aid behind them. That is why that passage in the Report has been of very great value. No one knows how the emigrant comes, and when he is there he has to fend for himself, and when his future there depends upon his own energy and capacity he gets far more sympathy from the people round him than do those who go over and are known to be receiving the support of the Government. We found that attitude very wide-spread in Canada.
At the same time I should like to say that these schemes—the 3,000 family scheme and the settlement schemes—have been very successful, and certainly the Provincial Governments and the Central Government itself have been sympathetic and done all they could to assist. It is not only right but it is certainly 43 very good business to send out a fine class of emigrant. Of course in Canada they are extremely proud of their citizens and of the class of people who are developing in that country as its future people, and if we can say that we can send out—and certainly we can—quite as good stuff from this country as they have in their own country, nothing would be a better advertisement for the enlargement of emigration from this country to Canada.
There are three other points which I would like to mention. One is this. We have heard a great deal of the effect on emigration, or the desire to emigrate and seek fortunes in other countries, of the various Insurance Acts in this country. In this Report there is a reference to the schemes that have been brought in, allowing persons who are insured in this country to become voluntary insurers in the Dominions, or, for a short time, to carry with them the insurances they have already. I am quite aware that this system has only been recently inaugurated. I do not know whether the noble Lord who is to reply will be able to tell us whether there are any signs that this new provision is getting rid of the difficulty which has hitherto been found to exist and whether there are any signs that the relaxations are having some effect on emigration from this country.
The second point I should like to refer to was touched on by the noble Viscount, and that is bringing home to the people here the advantages they may obtain in the Dominions. I notice that at a certain period it was stated there were 159 meetings in the last year, addressed by various persons, on the advantages of emigration. That seems to me to be a totally inadequate number of meetings to bring home to the people of this country the astonishing opportunities that await them in these vast Dominions. I cannot imagine anything more inadequate. During one election in a single constituency one addresses quite 159 meetings. It is, as the noble Lord knows, by bringing it home to the people of the country in their own districts by means of speeches or lectures, or the experiences of those who have been to the Dominions, or by means of the cinema, that you really operate on the mind of the individual and get into him and his family the idea that great advantages await 44 them in seeking new fields and new fortunes in the Dominions. I do not know whether the noble Lord can assure us that all has been done that can be done to develop what I may call the advertisement side of the advantages of emigration to the Dominions.
The last point I would make is this. I am not going to ask what are the actual subjects which are to be brought before the Imperial Conference when it meets in September, but I do venture to hope that this subject will he very fully discussed, and that all the conditions which we have heard of in New Zealand, in Australia and even in Canada will be brought into the general discussion. I do not say that the State can do everything in the matter of aided emigration, but I think it can do a great deal, by enlisting the sympathy of the Dominions, to make things easier for those emigrants when they get there, and to spread abroad the great doctrine, already fortunately accepted by the Government of Australia, that a great deal might be done to bring about a better distribution of the white population of the Empire.
§ THE EARL OF IDDESLEIGHMy Lords, as one who has been for the past two years conected with an emigration society I rise to offer a few short comments on what has fallen from the lips of the noble Earl on the subject of emigration. I suggest that while there is undoubtedly a need for advertising emigration this work should be undertaken with the utmost care and delicacy. A very great deal of harm has been done by men who have gone out to the Dominions with the idea that they will find there a land of promise, and of promise of a kind which needs very little effort to obtain it, and have found, on arriving in Canada and Australia, that the struggle for life is there exceedingly hard, that there is, as of course is the fact, unemployment even in Canada, and that competition with emigrants from other European countries is severe and keen. I hope that in any advertisement on emigration great care will be taken not to raise hopes which cannot be satisfied.
There is one further sphere in which I believe advertisement could be of the very greatest advantage, and that is in the matter of women. Australia, in par- 45 ticular, needs, and will admit, a considerable number of British female emigrants, and it is very regrettable that the training colleges that do exist for fitting the young women of this country for domestic service and other employment in Australia are now not as full as they were. I hope that His Majesty's Government will do their best to see that the women's training colleges receive their full complement of applicants.
THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD PONSONBY OF SHUEBREDE)My Lords, I have been asked to reply to this Motion as, for the first six months that the present Government were in office, I held the position of Chairman of the Oversea Settlement Committee. I am grateful to the noble Viscount for raising this question, because I hope to reply to the questions he has put, and, at the same time, if I may, give a general survey of the present stage of emigration, about which a considerable amount of misunderstanding and ignorance exists in the public mind. This is not a Party question, nor is it even a political question; it is an economic question, and largely a scientific question. Unfortunately the superficial view appears so easy and plausible that people who have not got the opportunity to investigate further are apt to be very seriously misled. You hear people saying: "Here are we with 95,000 square miles and a population of 45,000,000 people, and there is Australia with an area of something like 3,000,000 square miles and A population of 6,000,000 people. Why not ship off some of our inhabitants and so relieve our congestion and help Australia?" It all seems so simple until one gets to very close quarters with the subject and realises its difficulty.
The effect of this having been taken into the Party and political arena has been very damaging—very damaging indeed. It has done infinite harm and I would plead, my Lords, that this subject should not be associated with the question of unemployment. That fact, that statement, that declaration has done a very great deal of harm because there is no question that superficially, in the eyes of people in the Dominions, there is an association between the words "unem- 46 ployed" and "unemployable." At once the notion becomes current that we desire to ship off those who are not fit for work in this country. It has done harm. Of course every man or woman who goes out of this country and relieves the labour market and leaves room for someone else, does incidentally relieve unemployment, but that consequence is a very different thing from setting out to state definitely that you are going to relieve unemployment by shipping people out of the country. Unfortunately, it got very much about at one time that it was the intention of the authorities in this country to drive people out of the country. That created a very great deal of prejudice.
The first consideration in this matter that must be taken into account before anything else concerns the wishes of the Dominions—the desires of the Dominions, the needs of the Dominions, the economic position of the Dominions. If I may put it rather crudely, this question of migration is a question of pulling and not of pushing. If full account is not taken of Dominion intentions and desires you at once come to grief. I think the best way is for me to deal with the subject from the point of view of the conditions which apply to any emigrant, man, woman or family, and I think, incidentally, as I pass along I shall be able to reply to the questions put by the noble Viscount and the noble Earl opposite. There is the question of the willingness of the emigrant first, his fitness second, his passage third, the desire of the Dominion Government to receive him fourth, and lastly, there is a question of after-care, when he arrives.
Let me begin with willingness because that is, as I say, the essence of the matter. You must have people who want to go. You must attract the adventurous spirits. There must be no question of trying to get rid of people who are not inclined to go. Assistance is given to the extent of about 35 per cent. of those who are sent out. The agencies that have to be consulted—and this will show the noble Viscount the complexity of the whole matter—include the Dominions representatives here in London, and the passenger agents and shipping companies. The two latter are responsible for 50 per cent. of emigration. Necessarily, through the commercial element, the element of profit, coming into it, their 47 activities perhaps are more successful than those of other organisations. Then the Ministry of Labour acts as the executive machine for the Government, operating through labour exchanges and now, occasionally, through shops. There are three of them set up. There is one in Sheffield, one in Newcastle and one in Hull. They are eminently successful because there is a desire if possible to get recruits by other means than through the labour exchanges in order to get away from the idea that the unfit are being shipped off. Then there are local migration committees. There are about fifty of them up and down the country. Some of them are very much more active and have much greater opportunities than others. There is one, for instance, in Yorkshire which is extremely active and which is supported by the very admirable work done by the noble Lord, Lord Middleton, who has just gone off to Canada. He has done very splendid work and really devoted his life to this service.
Then there are voluntary organisations. There are something like thirty of them. It would be invidious to single out any of them in case it might seem that I was not laying sufficient emphasis on the assistance given by others. I might say that there are notably the Salvation Army, the Y.M.C.A., and Dr. Barnardo's Homes, to instance three of them. They all do admirable work and they are able to get into contact with sections of the population of various sorts which are quite outside the reach of any Government Department. All these voluntary societies are supported fifty-fifty by the Government. Through them men, families, single women, and boys are dealt with. The noble Lord who spoke last called attention to the question of single women and I think it is very desirable that they should be attracted to the Dominions. There unquestionably is an opening for them. There is a great deficiency of women in Australia and we have two million women more than men. I will not say too many, because that does not sound polite and we are very reluctant to part with any of them, but when they get to Australia the prospects of marriage are certainly much rosier. About 7,000 a year are being sent out.
§ THE EARL OF IDDESLEIGHIs the noble Lord aware that there is a serious 48 falling off in applicants for training women?
§ LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDEYes, I understand there is for the time being, because there is some difficulty with regard to Market Harborough owing to the Australian contribution having been withdrawn. Now I come to the question of fitness and here I may answer one of the questions put by the noble Viscount. He must get out of his mind really from the outset that there is any possibility of sending out anybody who not A 1. The idea that we can send out anyone who is C 3 or B 2, or whatever other category of physical fitness there may be, must be rejected at once. In the first place the physical test laid down by the Dominions is very severe, and in the second place it is quite obvious that it is no good sending out men who cannot do the job and have to be deported. You want to send out fit men. You do not want to part with them, because you want them here—that is the trouble—but they are the men who ought to go.
To show how strict the test is, the noble Viscount may have seen the figures lately issued showing that there were 18,609 applications to go to Canada and only 5,941 acceptances. That meant that the migrants had to go first of all through a sieve on this side, not only as to their physical fitness but as to their suitability, and then through the medical sieve of the Canadian authorities. This fact will also indicate how cautious we have to be, as the noble Earl who spoke last reminded us, with regard to advertising. The truth is that, except in regard to single women, applications to go overseas are far greater than the numbers that can be placed and will be accepted, and therefore there is no need for any great extension of publicity. We are anxious that emigrants should undertake agricultural work and take root when they get there, and should not drift away to the cities or be deported.
I need not enter into the question of training centres, which is fully set out in the Paper to which the noble Viscount has already drawn attention. He will see there accounts of the training centres for men, for boys and for women. I have visited a number of these. They are admirably conducted. When I visited the boys in one of the hostels I heard expressions of regret that boys of such a 49 sturdy and enterprising kind should be lost to this country. It is unfortunate. In the same way, with regard to the young women, you hear complaints that people cannot get domestic servants here, and it is asked why these people should be trained to go into domestic service in Australia. I found that the type of young woman in this home was not the same as that which would go into domestic service in this country. The sort of social help that is given to families in Australia is rather different. With regard to the passage, it has already been stated that the reduction in the fare to Canada has had certain results. In 1928 the numbers taken over were 54,709, and in 1929 65,553. That seems to denote an increase due to the reduction, though perhaps not entirely; but there comes a point at which you do not want to reduce further. You want to assist as little as you can, in order to preserve the spirit of independence in the man or family going out. Also, as the noble Earl, Lord Peel, said, they prefer in Canada the independent, unassisted emigrants to those that have to be supported by the State.
I turn to the question of Dominion acceptance. I do not want to keep your Lordships long, but it is rather important to make a general survey. The question of Dominion acceptance, as I have said, is one of the most important considerations that we have to take into account. With regard to every emigrant you have to consider his fitness and willingness and you have to negotiate with the society responsible for him and with the Dominion Government. Every care is taken to see that as few failures as possible are sent out. The scheme in regard to 3,000 families which was referred to by the noble Earl, Lord Peel, was very successful indeed. There were only 115 failures in the years 1927–9. The noble Earl, Lord Peel, was a little optimistic with regard to the present position in Canada. The collapse in wheat prices, which began before the drought of 1929, and the financial crisis in October, followed by the difficulty of disposing of the wheat crop, has led to unemployment and to reluctance to take people into farm work. We cannot expect that they will receive so many as in recent years. Last year 65,558 went out to Canada, and of these 58,755 were assisted.
50 With regard to Australia, the economic conditions have rather hung things up for the moment. I need not enter into the conditions of the agreement that has been referred to and the schemes that were entered upon under it. For the time being it is suspended, but there is a reluctance on the part of the Commonwealth, forced upon them by economic reasons, to open their doors so wide as they have opened them in the past. I should like to say a passing word, since we are talking of training centres, about the admirable Fairbridge school in Australia for the farm training of school children from the age of seven upwards. There is accommodation for 350, and there were 344 there in October last. It is receiving support not only from the Commonwealth Government but from succeeding Governments in Great Britain, and it does most admirable work.
The noble Viscount asked about South Africa. The figures from South Africa will show him that last year 5,766 went out, and of these 84 were assisted. The percentage is negligible. There is no opening for assisted emigrants. Anybody who goes out to South Africa must have a certain amount of capital so as to shift for himself, to buy land and stock and set up a farm. The 1820 Settlers Association does admirable work in getting hold of people who will go out and who have capital, and gives them facilities and all the necessary information. I think the noble Viscount, in mentioning Africa, also referred to Ireland. Ireland let me tell him, is not an immigrant but an emigrant country. Unfortunately people go out of Ireland.
The question of after-care has been very carefully gone into. It is felt that the obligation of the Government, if they assist a migrant to go over, should not stop with his arrival, and a certain amount of financial assistance is given to migrants once they are over there, and the Government of the Dominion join in and help. The best publicity is the success of the migrants who write home and whose letters are published. Unfortunately cases of failure get broadcast very much more easily and have much wider publicity than cases of success. That is very unfortunate. If anybody fails, he writes home and 51 his letter gets into the local Press, but I have seen numberless letters from people who have succeeded in the Dominions, both young people and families, and these very often do not reach beyond their own circle. I will not go into statistics, because these are fully set out in the Paper to which reference has been made.
The noble Earl, Lord Peel, asked a question about the United States, and how far the raising of the quota would affect emigrants from this country. It is a little too early to say, but in 1929 there was certainly an increase—the number went up to 30,709, as compared with a lower figure in the previous year. He also asked whether the effect of various insurances was not to anchor people to this country and make it more difficult. It is rather too early to give any real direct results, but I would assure the noble Earl that this question of the anchorage of the population here because of our insurance and pensions is very much exaggerated. That is not the difficulty. The difficulty is at the other end. I may mention that the meetings which have been quoted are only meetings of the Oversea Settlement Committee. Voluntary societies have held a great many meetings, but just now it is very difficult to hold meetings. I was asked to attend one, but you cannot urge people to come forward when you cannot show them any openings to go to. The trouble for the time being is the economic condition of New Zealand, Australia and Canada.
I think I have gone over this question sufficiently to show that it is a matter of great complexity, but world wide economic influences have presented it to us in a way which is far more difficult and far more complex, and requiring far closer study and consideration, than the way in which it was ever presented to any of our predecessors. There is no reluctance on the part of any of the Dominions to receive men and women of British stock. On the contrary, there is eagerness to 52 receive them, and there is no reluctance on the part of a great many adventurous spirits to go out to the Dominions. There are, however, barriers in the way, largely of an economic description, which need not be emphasized by bringing in any sort of political bias, but which I hope in a few years may be overcome sufficiently to allow us to see a greater flow. Meanwhile I am not announcing any policy on the part of the Government. It is obvious that it is one of those questions which require close consideration with the Dominions themselves, and the Government are waiting for the next few months, when the Imperial Conference comes on, to have very close consultation with the Dominions on the whole question.
VISCOUNT MERSEYI take it that the noble Lord has no further Papers beyond those which are contained in the Command Paper that I hold in my hand?
§ LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDEI think the Command Paper gives all.
§ Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.