§ Provisions as to the determination and payment of compensation to officers.
§ 5. In computing the service of any officer for the purpose of the award of compensation the council shall take into account all the service of that officer after he attained the age of eighteen years under any local authority:
388§ Provided that where the officer held two or more offices and the claim to compensation is based on a loss of one or some only of those offices, account shall not be taken under this paragraph of service in an office which the officer continues to hold.
§ LORD ARNOLD moved to add to paragraph 5 "but in the case of any such officer who throughout the period of his service under any local authority or local authorities devoted the whole of his time to the duties of the office or offices held by him account shall be taken of the whole of such period exclusive of any service before attaining the age of eighteen years." The noble Lord said: I can state the case for this Amendment in one or two moments. It is a somewhat important matter and it was not possible to discuss it in another place; therefore I hope your Lordships will bear with me. The point is one which might affect certain men. It is to do with the transferred Poor Law officer who holds perhaps several offices. He may be a relieving officer, a collector for the guardians, a registrar of births, marriages and deaths, and a vaccination officer—a whole-time official, and all his offices really regarded as one. The question is what you would have to spend in respect of compensation if, on his transfer, he were for certain reasons, called upon to take a reduced salary. If there is no reduction of salary the question of compensation would not arise.
§ This man may have held three offices for thirty years. He may have held, say, the office of vaccination officer for only ten years, and if, when he is transferred, he ceases to be vaccination officer and his compensation has to be assessed on the basis of his only being vaccination officer for ten years, obviously he will not be as well off as if it were assessed on the basis of his having been vaccination officer the whole time. It does not really matter in a great many cases how many offices one of these men hold so long as he has been working his whole time as a whole-time officer. It is really an accident whether he holds three or four offices. He may have had the vaccination office put on him in the last ten years, perhaps because of an increase in salary, or for some other reason, but he cannot work more than his whole time, and if, on the transfer, one of these offices is dropped 389 and it happens to be one which he has not held for anything like the whole time, it is clear as a matter of logic and justice that his compensation ought to be assessed on the basis of the total length of service.
§ There are reasons why this should be done. If you do not do it you are creating an unfair differentiation between a whole-time officer who holds one appointment only and one who holds several appointments. There is no real justice in it. For the purpose of superannuation under the Poor Law Officers Superannuation Act, 1896, the whole of the service of an officer, whether whole or part time or whether continuous or not, is reckoned. My hope is that this proviso in the Bill really was intended to deal simply with part-time officers. If that is so, I have nothing more to say. I am not for a moment pleading for them, but for the whole-time officers. I think the case for the addition to the proviso which I propose is a very strong one, more particularly as I believe this proviso is new in our legislation. I think it has not hitherto been inserted in any public Statute, Local Act or Provisional Order. Therefore, on those grounds alone, I suggest that before it is left as it is it would require very strong justification. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 133, line 16, at end insert the said words.—(Lord Arnold.)
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThe proviso in the Schedule says:
Provided that where the officer held two or more offices, and the claim to compensation is based on a loss of one or some only of those offices, account shall not be taken under this paragraph of service in an office which the officer continues to hold.The Amendment which the noble Lord asks your Lordships to accept would qualify the proviso which I have just read by saying it is not to apply to any officer who throughout the period of his service under the local authority devoted the whole of his time to the duties of the office or offices held by him and that account shall be taken of the whole of such period exclusive of any service before attaining the age of eighteen years. That, I think, is the modification which would take place.I ought to explain the proviso. It seemed to me that the noble Lord asked 390 for a little clarification on that point. The proviso is designed to meet this class of case. An officer may have held for, say, twenty years an office such as the clerkship to a rural district council, which is not affected by the Bill and which he will continue to hold. About ten years ago he may have secured a second office such as the clerkship to a board of guardians, which is affected by the Bill, while still holding the rural council clerkship. Upon the officer's appointment as clerk to the guardians being determined by the county council, he would be able under the first part of paragraph 5 to base his claim to compensation for the loss of that office on his 20 years' service as clerk to the rural district council. The claim to compensation would, therefore, be based on ten years' service as clerk to the guardians plus service in any previous office which the officer does not continue to hold—that is to say, the clerkship which he held before promotion to the office of clerk to the guardians.
This proviso is right because where an officer holds more than one office service in an office which is not affected by the Bill, and in which the officer will continue, should not be allowed to swell the claim to compensation for the loss of another office held by that officer. The two do not, I think, hang together. If you were to allow them to hang together the compensation would be doubled. I do not think there is any good reason for exempting an officer from this rule because he has devoted all his time to the duties of the offices held under local authorities. The principle that where an officer remains in the enjoyment of the emoluments of an office, service in this office should be disregarded in compensating him for the loss of another office still holds good. That is the whole point.
§ LORD ARNOLDThe noble Earl's illustration, as I understand it, has to do with two offices, one of which is affected by the Bill, another of which is not. The case I put was different. A man might hold four offices all of which were affected by the Bill and one of which he is required to give up. That is the case I should like the noble Earl to reply to. In that case it does not seem to me a fair thing to assess him for compensation on a shorter term of office in one of those offices whereas he has really been working whole-time 391 throughout his whole service. It does not matter for practical purposes whether he holds three or four offices. Will the noble Earl look into the matter before Report?
THE EARL OF ONSLOWIt is rather a new point and it will be safer if the noble Lord will allow me to look into it without committing myself.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Amendments moved—
§ Page 135, leave out lines 1 to 4.
§
Page 135, line 17, at end insert:
("(c) the office of a teacher in a public elementary school maintained but not provided by a local education authority shall be deemed to be an office under the authority; and").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendments agreed to.
§ Eighth Schedule, as amended, agreed to.
§ Ninth Schedule:
§ Amendments moved—
§ Page 137, line 28, leave out ("in case") and insert ("where")
§ Page 137, line 28, leave out ("had been") and insert ("was")
§ Page 140, line 16, leave out ("appointed day") and insert ("first day of October, nineteen hundred and twenty-nine")
§ Page 140, line 28, leave out ("appointed day") and insert ("first day of October, nineteen hundred and twenty-nine")
§
Page 141, line 43, at end insert:
("6. Notwithstanding anything in subsection (2) of section one of the Rating and Valuation (Apportionment) Act, 1928, it shall not be necessary for an agricultural, industrial or freight transport hereditament to be distinguished as such in any supplemental list which will come into force in the County of London on the sixth day of April, nineteen hundred and thirty, and nothing contained in any such supplemental list shall operate to alter the valuation list in force immediately before the said date as respects any hereditament which in that valuation list is so distinguished as aforesaid.")—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendments agreed to.
§ Ninth Schedule, as amended, agreed to.
§ Tenth Schedule:
392§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 144, line 10, at end insert:
("10. Section sixteen of the Highways and Locomotives (Amendment) Act, 1878, shall have effect as if the words 'in pursuance of this Act' were omitted therefrom").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Tenth Schedule, as amended, agreed to.
§ Eleventh Schedule:
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThe first Amendments in my name to this Schedule are required in connection with an Amendment to be moved later on on page 155. I beg to move.
§ Amendments moved—
§ Page 150, line 18, leave out from the second ("the") to ("in") in line 20, and insert ("estimated rate relief of the companies")
§
Page 150, line 23, at end insert:
("(b) any interest payable on sums borrowed by the Railway Clearing House in accordance with the provisions of this Schedule; and").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendments agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 152, line 1, leave out ("resultant coal") and insert ("coal or of the resultant").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendments agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThe next Amendment is intended to make it clear that the scheme to be submitted to the Railway Rates Tribunal may provide that a railway company may apportion the rates on coal.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 152, line 6, at end insert ("and may provide for any certificates necessary for such apportionment being obtained by the companies and for the allowance of rebates apportioned upon the basis thereof, subject to occasional verification of the facts thereby certified").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 153, line 19, leave out ("has been") and insert ("is"),—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThe next Amendment on the Paper is designed to meet a situation which may arise owing to wholly exceptional circumstances affecting to an abnormal degree the amount of heavy traffic passing by rail.
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 154, line 18, at end insert:
("11. If it appears to the Minister of Transport that by reason of some excep-
393
tional occurrence the net revenue of the fund for any year is or will be abnormally greater or less than the amount which, upon the basis of the rebates for the time being in force, will be required, to pay the sums payable thereout under paragraph five of this Part of this Schedule to the companies in respect of that year, and that there is danger of such instability being thereby occasioned in the rates of the said rebates as to affect prejudicially the operation of the scheme, he shall issue to the tribunal a certificate that in his opinion the rates of the rebates to be allowed in respect of any group of selected traffics specified in the certificate ought to be reviewed, and upon receipt of such a certificate the tribunal shall, notwithstanding anything in this Part of this Schedule, have power to make such alterations in the scheme as they consider desirable for stabilising, so far as practicable, the rates of the rebates to be allowed in respect of that group, and, if they think fit, for securing that any abnormal excess shall be expended, or abnormal deficiency made good, as the case may be, over such period of years as they think proper").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThe effect of the next Amendment is to exclude from application to the jurisdiction of the Railway Rates Tribunal certain provisions as to appeals.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 154, line 32, leave out ("Sections twenty-five and twenty-six") and insert ("Section twenty-five except so far as it relates to appeals").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendments moved—
§
Page 155, line 21, at end insert:
("(d) the Railway Clearing House may, with the consent of the Minister of Transport and subject to such conditions as he may think fit, borrow moneys on the security of the fund for purposes connected with the scheme.
§
Page 155, line 48, at end insert:
("Provided that in determining for the purposes of this provision whether there is for any year such a deficiency as aforesaid or the amount of any such deficiency, no account shall be taken of any sum paid in that year by way of adjustment under paragraph 2 of this Part of this Schedule").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendments agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThe next Amendment is intended to remove doubt as to whether the existing definition of carriage charges includes carriage charges made by light railway companies.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 156, line 42, after ("tribunal") insert ("or made by a light railway company").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
394§ Amendments moved—
§ Page 157, line 36, leave out ("subparagraph (a)") and insert ("sub-paragraphs (1) (a) and (b)")
§ Page 159, line 30, after ("assessment") insert ("or valuation").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendments agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThe next Amendment is designed to enable a rebate to be allowed on treacle sent to farmers for the purpose of being used as feeding stuffs.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 160, line 20, leave out ("consigned") and insert ("delivered").—(The Earl of Onslow).
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 160, line 41, leave out from the beginning to the end of line 5 on page 161, and insert:
("Such coal delivered to patent fuel works as is used for the manufacture of exported patent fuel:
§ Such coal delivered to a washery as is washed or cleaned thereat before being exported or delivered to and used in iron or steel works:
§ Such coal delivered to a coke oven (not being situate at an iron or steel works) as is used for the manufacture of coke which is exported or delivered to and used in iron or steel works:").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Eleventh Schedule, as amended, agreed to.
§ Twelfth Schedule:
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThe next Amendment is to repeal Section 4 of the Union Assessment Committee Act which is rendered obsolete.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 163, line 11, after ("two end") insert ("four").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendment moved—
§ Page 170, line 23, at end insert:
| ("41 & 42 Vict.c.77. | The Highwaysand Locomotives (Amendment) Act, 1878. | In section sixteen, the words 'in pursuance of this Act.'" |
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Twelfth Schedule, as amended, agreed to.
§ House resumed.
§ House adjourned at a quarter past three o'clock.