§ Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
§ THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (EARL DE LA WARR)My Lords, in moving that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill perhaps I might be allowed to say that I have consulted my right hon. friend the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and he feels that as there is a certain amount of misunderstanding regarding this Bill, even though we think it could be cleared up, it might be better if we postponed the further stages until Monday or Tuesday.
§ LORD BLEDISLOEDo you say Monday?
§ EARL DE LA WARRPerhaps it might be better to have the Report stage on Monday and the Third Reading on Tuesday, or, if it would be more convenient to the House, we might have both stages on Tuesday. That could be arranged.
§ Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Earl De La Warr.)
§ LORD BLEDISLOEDoes the noble Earl intend not to take the Committee stage?
§ EARL DE LA WARRTo have the Committee stage to-day.
§ LORD BLEDISLOEAnd the remaining stages on Monday?
§ EARL DE LA WARRThe noble and learned Lord the Leader of the House thinks that Tuesday would probably better meet the convenience of the House.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
145§ House in Committee accordingly:
§ [The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]
§ Construction of references in certain land-drainage enactments to values as ascertained for rating purposes.
§ 1.—(1) Any provision of any enactment relating to the drainage or protection of land which requires any matter, other than the amount of any drainage rate, to be determined by reference to the value of properly as ascertained for the purposes of general rates, or of drainage rates, shall, as from the first day of October, nineteen hundred and twenty-nine, have effect as if it required that matter to be determined by reference to such value as is hereinafter mentioned, that is to say:—
- (i) In the case of property assessed for income tax purposes under Schedule A of the Income Tax Act, 1918, as amended by any subsequent enactment, by reference to gross annual value for income tax purposes, any necessary apportionment of that value being made by a court of summary jurisdiction; and
- (ii) In the case of property not so assessed, by reference to gross annual value as determined by a court of summary jurisdiction.
§
(2) In this Act—
Enactment" includes any public, general, local or private Act and any order or award made under any Act;
Drainage rate" means any rate which is assessed under any commission of sewers or in respect of any drainage, wall, embankment or other work for the benefit of land; and
Gross annual value for income tax purposes" means the annual value for the time being in force for the purposes of income tax under Schedule A of the Income Tax Act, 1918, as amended by any subsequent enactment.
§ LORD BLEDISLOE moved, in subsection (1), after "Any provision of any enactment relating to the drainage or protection of land," to insert "against flooding or erosion." The noble Lord said: Although this Bill, which is designed to effect a somewhat small purpose, seems to contain a plethora of verbiage, I suggest that there are at least two words, or possibly four, that ought to be inserted by this House. This clause speaks of the protection of land without indicating in any way what the land is being protected against. It might be protected against vermin, against human encroachment, against incendiarism, against revolutionary disturbance or against all sorts of other things; but, when one reads the Bill 146 through, it is evident that what is intended is protection against flooding, and possibly also against erosion. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 1, line 7, after ("land") insert ("against flooding or erosion").—(Lord Bledisloe).
§ EARL DE LA WARRI think that at least half of the words of the noble. Lord, Lord Bledisloe, are undoubtedly an improvement to the drafting of the Bill, but I would ask him if he would omit the words "or erosion." It is perfectly true that certain drainage authorities, under their Private Acts, have the power to make sea walks and embankments which are liable to erosion, but they have no power specifically to deal with erosion as such, and therefore the word "erosion" has never been included in drainage legislation before, and would probably cause a certain amount of difficulty. If the noble Lord would move the addition merely of the words "against flooding," His Majesty's Government would be very pleased to accept the Amendment.
§ LORD BLEDISLOEAfter the noble Lord's explanation I am quite prepared to move my Amendment in that form, in the fervent hope that when a real and exhaustive drainage Bill is submitted to this House erosion will be taken into account and comprised within the Bill as well as flooding, because they are both—as I think we indicated in the Report of the Royal Commission—part of the same problem, and ought to be dealt with exhaustively in the same way.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 1, line 7, after ("land") insert ("against flooding").—(Lord Bledisloe).
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
EARL DE LA WARR had given Notice to move, after subsection (1), to insert the following new subsection:—
(2) Any provision of any enactment relating to the drainage or protection of land which provides that the electors at any election of members; of a drainage authority shall be the owners and occupiers of lands within the drainage area or district, and that for the purposes of any such election the owner or occupier of any land shall be deemed to be the person shown in the rate hook of the parish or rating area as being the owner or occupier of that land on a
147
specified date, shall as from the first day of October, nineteen hundred and twenty-nine, have effect as if it provided that the persons entitled to vote at any such election as being owners and occupiers of lands shall, instead of being ascertained by reference to the said rate book, be ascertained by reference to a list of owners and occupiers liable to pay drainage rates to be kept by the drainage authority (either in their drainage-rate book or, if they so elect, as a separate list), or in the case of any dispute as to the correctness of any such list, be ascertained by a court of summary jurisdiction, and as if it provided further that the date by reference to which the persons entitled to vote at any such election as the owners and occupiers of lands are to be ascertained shall be such date, not less than two nor more than four months before the date of the election, as the drainage authority may fix for that purpose.
§ The noble Earl said: This is a very-long and apparently a very complicated Amendment, but it is really quite simple. Land drainage legislation is, as your Lordships know and as Lord Bledisloe told us the other day, extremely complicated, and the various drainage authorities operate under all sorts of varying and different Private Acts. There are even certain Acts of which the Ministry of Agriculture is not actually in possession. The Ministry, however, have been looking through all the Orders that they have in their possession and the fact has been revealed that in one or two cases the electors of the members of the drainage board are described in the Order as the persons whose names appear in the Poor Rate book in the parish concerned. This is a different description from that of the other classes of persons with whom the Bill is intended to deal—namely, those persons the value of whose land is based on the Poor Bate assessment. It therefore becomes necessary to move this Amendment in order to meet cases that are not at present included in the Bill. I think your Lordships will see that this is a very small point. The Amendment is merely designed to make the machinery of these elections, which are to be held very shortly, more conclusive and easier to operate. It will definitely close a hole that does exist in the Bill at present, and will complete this legislation. It will be necessary, I think, in view of Lord Bledisloe's Amendment to which 148 we have just agreed, to insert, After "land" in the second line of my proposed Amendment, the words "against flooding."
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 1, line 24, at end insert:
("(2) Any provision of any enactment relating to the drainage or protection of land against flooding which provides that the electors at any election of members of a drainage authority shall be the owners and occupiers of lands within the drainage area or district, and that for the purposes of any such election the owner or occupier of any land shall be deemed to be the person shown in the rate book of the parish or rating area as being the owner or occupier of that land on a specified date, shall as from the first day of October, nineteen hundred and twenty-nine, have effect as if it provided that the persons entitled to vote at any such election as being owners and occupiers of lands shall, instead of being ascertained by reference to the said rate book, be ascertained by reference to a list of owners and occupiers liable to pay drainage rates to be kept by the drainage authority (either in their drainage-rate book or, if they so elect, as a separate list), or in the case of any dispute as to the correctness of any such list, be ascertained by a court of summary jurisdiction, and as if it provided further that the date by reference to which the persons entitled to vote at any such election as the owners and occupiers of lands are to be ascertained shall be such date, not less than two nor more than four months before the date of the election, as the drainage authority may fix for that purpose.")—(Earl De La Warr.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.
§ Remaining clause agreed to.