§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, it will perhaps be within the recollection of your Lordships that at the beginning of business yesterday there was left a certain ambiguity in the arrangements for the remainder of the sittings of the House before the Recess, and the noble and learned Lord the Leader of the House was good enough to say that I might confer with him privately upon the subject. I have been able to exchange a few words with him and I think your Lordships will be very much obliged if he would say how the situation strikes him after that conversation.
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (LORD PARMOOR)My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Marquess. I think it is of great assistance in every way in the conduct of our business that we should consult together from time to time. The first question which arises is whether the Committee stage of the Road Traffic Bill can possibly be finished to-night. I do not think it can. Of course if it could be finished, that would be an end of the difficulties regarding future arrangements. Assuming that it is not finished to-night, I think the debate on the very important Bill which is in the hands of my noble friend Lord Arnold on Second Reading to-morrow will be finished before eight o'clock, so that, if necessary, I suggest that we might sit after dinner to-morrow in order to make certain of getting through the Committee stage of the Road Traffic Bill before we go away for the Christmas vacation. I hope that will not be too great a strain. I am sure it is extremely important that it should be done. We made every effort to have this Bill introduced in your Lordships' House and the discussions in Committee have been extremely satisfactory, but it is important that we should get to the end of the Committee 1462 stage before we go away for the Christmas vacation. As the noble Earl, Lord Russell, has pointed out, it is very desirable that the Bill should be reprinted with the Amendments introduced in order that it may be carefully considered before the Report stage. If necessary I will make that proposition for to-morrow.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, of course there is no objection whatever to sitting after dinner to-night. It was quite understood that we should do so and no doubt we shall make very considerable progress with the Bill to-night. As the noble and learned Lord said, to-morrow is primarily devoted to the discussion of the Second Reading of the Unemployment Insurance Bill. It is quite impossible for me to say straight off how long that debate will take. I have not yet heard the number of noble Lords who are likely to speak, but no doubt there will be several and the speeches will be, I will not say very long, but full speeches upon a topic of such great importance. Whether it will be possible to conclude the debate before dinner to-morrow it is impossible to say, but I have no doubt that if that debate cannot be concluded before dinner the noble and learned Lord would wish us to sit after dinner in order to finish it. It is quite clear in the face of that uncertainty as to what may happen, that it may be a little difficult to say if an after-dinner sitting to-morrow will be available for further progress on the Committee stage of the Road Traffic Bill.
I do not know how it will work out, or what noble Lords would prefer to do, but no doubt we shall be able to get an expression of opinion in the course of the evening from all parts of your Lordships' House. Whether noble Lords would prefer that course rather than to sit for a couple of hours on Friday I do not know. That is a matter which must wait until we can get an expression of opinion as to the convenience of noble Lords. One thing I think we may take positively from the noble and learned Lord, and that is that in no circumstances will your Lordships' House be sitting after the close of this week.
§ EARL BEAUCHAMPMy Lords, perhaps the noble and learned Lord will allow me to say that we on these Benches 1463 shall do everything we can to assist His Majesty's Government in regard to the Road Traffic Bill. For a great many years it has been the custom of the noble Marquess to express the wish that Governments would introduce important Bills into your Lordships' House at an early part of the Session. His Majesty's Government have been good enough to do so on this occasion, and I think we ought to have given them a great deal more assistance in passing this Bill than we have given up to the present. It would have been quite unnecessary, I think, to ask us to sit on Friday if unfortunately it had not been for the refusal of the noble Marquess to sit late on various occasions.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI do not recollect them.
§ EARL BEAUCHAMPOn Thursday evening we might very well have sat after dinner, and we might have sat on Friday. I think His Majesty's Government intimated their readiness to sit on Thursday night and also on Friday. On Monday we were allowed to sit in the evening, but last night we were not. I venture to say that there was not a single member of your Lordships' House who was present here last night who would not have wished to sit after dinner. The noble Marquess was good enough the other day to make some reference to my absence on Monday night. He himself was absent at the adjournment of the House yesterday evening.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYThe noble Earl is inclined to be a little personal. The truth is that I was here until half-past seven, and I think that, if we were to east up the balance between the noble Earl's attendances and my own, I need have no fear of the result.
§ EARL BEAUCHAMPI did not begin to be personal. It was the noble Marquess himself. He sneered at me on Monday night for my absence on that day.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYIt was evident that the noble Earl had been enjoying himself.
§ EARL BEAUCHAMPAnd the noble Marquess himself last night. If the noble Marquess begins to talk like this, we are bound to point out that it is very easy for those who have command 1464 of large battalions, who can order attendance in your Lordships' House one night and tell their followers to go away another night, to be able to be present exactly on those occasions which are convenient to them, but it is very much more difficult for members of your Lordships' House who, for many week past, have made engagements of a public or semi-public character, to throw them over at the very last moment. I regret very much the fact that your Lordships' House was not allowed to sit either on Thursday night after dinner or on Friday or after dinner last night. I believe that every body who was here would have been ready to sit on. To-day, unfortunately, as the result of this refusal to sit—.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI am quite unaware of this refusal of which the noble Earl speaks. I do not recollect that I ever did anything of the kind.
§ EARL BEAUCHAMPBut we know quite well that there was a discussion between the two noble Lords only the other day as to what had been understood in conversations which had taken place privately. The result, at any rate, is that we are being asked to do what is really the most inconvenient thing of all—namely, to sit both early and late to-day. I venture to think that it would have been a great deal better if we had sat on those occasions when His Majesty's Government asked us to do so during the last few days. We should have been able to make very much better progress with the Bill than we have made, and I am bound to say that, on the whole, it is no encouragement to His Majesty's Government on future occasions to bring forward Bills early in this House if they are not allowed to take the Committee stage as and when they like. I only wish to say to the noble and learned Lord opposite that I am quite ready, speaking for my friends and for myself, to sit whenever it is convenient to your Lordships and to be present as often as we possibly can in view of the engagements that we may have made some time ago.
§ LORD PARMOORMy Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Earl for what he has said, and I am also really much obliged to the noble Marquess for the assistance that he has given us from time to time in getting on with the business of this House. I do not desire to be a critic in any sense. As the noble Earl 1465 properly says, if we desire to make this House an important element in our legislative system, we must take the opportunity, when important Bills are brought here at an early stage, to deal with them in a business-like manner and give them sufficient time. This, as I have said more than once, has been our endeavour and was one of the motives for the introduction of the Road Traffic Bill in this House. It is not a political Bill in any sense, but it is a Bill with which this House is admirably suited to deal, for it involves an, immense amount of discussion and detail. Any one who has followed the discussions that we have had can only come to the conclusion that this House has done its work in an admirable manner. That, at any rate, is my opinion.
Now for the future. Matters are arranged for this evening, and I do not think anybody can say until after this evening, when we know how far we have got with the Amendments, what further time we shall want. Of course, I wish to make it quite clear, as the noble Marquess has said, that the chief business to-morrow is the Unemployment Insurance (No. 2) Bill. There will be no desire on our part, and certainly no attempt, in any way to cut short the discussion upon that extremely important Bill. Beyond that, if we can get time to-morrow after dinner, I shall ask the House to sit and, if possible, to finish the Committee stage of the Road Traffic Bill. If it is necessary to sit on Friday morning, I hope that the noble Earl and the noble Marquess will assist mo in finishing the Committee stage before we rise for Christmas. I do not want to be too definite, because nobody can tell exactly how long these discussions may take, but that is our expectation, and I know that I shall have the help both of the noble Marquess and of the noble Earl.
§ VISCOUNT CECIL OF CHELWOODMy Lords, if your Lordships would allow a quite unofficial member, who speaks for nobody except himself but who has taken considerable interest in the Road Traffic Bill, to express an opinion, I personally hope that, if it is a choice between sitting after dinner on Thursday and sitting on Friday, we shall sit on Friday. I believe, though I admit that your Lordships are capable of doing your work admirably at any time, that you do better before dinner than late in the evening. 1466 That is only my impression, perhaps founded on purely personal experience. In any case, I certainly hope that nothing that your Lordships have done will discourage this Government—I am sure it ought not to do so—from introducing important Bills into your Lordships' House.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords. I hope I may be forgiven if, like my noble friend who has just spoken, I make a submission upon this point. Like him, I have tried to take as great a part as I could in the discussions on the Committee stage of the Road Traffic Bill, and I agree with him, if it is a choice between sitting after dinner tomorrow and sitting on Friday, in hoping that we shall sit on Friday. As a matter of fact, in my own case, I have a public engagement tomorrow night. This was made when I understood from the noble and learned Lord the Leader of the House what the business of the week was to be. I hope, therefore, that, if it is possible to meet on Friday morning instead of after dinner to-morrow, this will be done. After what the Leader of the Liberal Party has been saying about those of us who were ready to sit on last night, I think I might remind the House that there was at least one rather important engagement after dinner last night which might have attracted some of your Lordships.
§ LORD PARMOORLet me make it quite clear. I think we shall want both Thursday evening and Friday morning. If there is a choice between the two, I will consider carefully what noble Lords have said.