CONSOLIDATION BILLS. (Hansard, 28 November 1928)

§ LORD MUIR MACKENZIE
My Lords, I beg to move to resolve, That it is desirable that all Consolidation Bills in the present Session, which are not Private Bills, be referred to a Joint Committee of both Houses of Parliament. Your Lordships have on many occasions been pleased to accept a Motion in the same terms as that which I have put upon the Paper for to-night, and I do not think it is necessary to trouble your Lordships with any arguments in its favour. I believe that there is no actual Consolidation Bill before either House at present, but it is just as well that the Committee should be set up at once in order to be ready to take any business that may be brought before it. As communications between the two Houses for the setting up of the Committee usually occupy some time, I suggest that we should get the Committee fully constituted as soon as we can.
I say that there are no Consolidation Bills on the Table at present, but there certainly is one Bill with regard to which this House and Parliament were last Session given to understand that it would be followed immediately by a consolidation, and that, in fact, the form that the Bill took, which laid it open to a great deal of criticism, was chiefly designed to facilitate consolidation. I venture to say that the much abused form of legislation by reference is very often convenient when a Bill is passed with a view to consolidation. It renders the actual process of consolidation very simple. I ventured to speak to the late Lord Chancellor about the form of the Companies Bill, and he was good enough to inform me that it was decidedly his intention that the Bill should never actually come into operation, that a clause had been introduced into it so as to enable a Consolidation Bill to be passed, and that the objectionable Bill would never actually take its place upon the Statute Book. So much for the Consolidation Bill that I accordingly hope we 352 may see upon the Table of your Lordships' House. I hope that it may be referred in the usual way to the Consolidation Committee.
Another Bill that I have in mind is the Unemployment Insurance Bill. I do not think that I am in a position to say that there was ever an actual promise given that the Acts relating to this matter would be consolidated, but very severe remarks were made both in this House and in another place about the form of the Unemployment Insurance Bill this time last year. In fact there was almost a first-class debate on the subject in the other House regarding the effects of the Bill, and the hope that it would never actually appear on the Statute Book found voice, I think, in all parts of that House. I do not think that anything was said amounting to a promise of legislation, but certainly, in answer to a very powerful speech on the subject by Lord Carson, who I had hoped would be here this evening, things were said which I think almost amounted to an undertaking that the objectionable Bill would never appear on the Statute Book and that a Consolidation Bill was very desirable. Venturing to say that I know something about legislation, I should like to add my opinion to the opinions that were expressed last Session, that the form of that Bill was very objectionable except on the understanding that it was definitely drawn for the purpose of consolidation.
There is one other point connected with this matter with which I should like to trouble the House. The House may remember that last year the Statute Law Revision Bill was passed and is now an Act of Parliament. It was passed with a view to the issue of volumes of the Revised Statutes, bringing them down to more modern times. The present edition of the Revised Statutes does not go beyond the end of last century, and it would certainly be desirable—and the House on that occasion virtually sanctioned the project—to carry on the Revised Statutes to a later date. The Statute Law Committee, of which I happen to be Chairman and which look to the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack as their supremum caput, have got the volumes almost ready to come out in the spring, and it certainly would be a, great misfortune if the various Acts that might be got rid of 353 should nevertheless have to appear, instead of Consolidation Acts which would put the Revised Statutes in the most useful form. I refer particularly to the Act of 1920, which will come within the limits of the new volumes of Statutes. I think that everybody who was acquainted with that legislation will agree that it would be a very great pity to give, as it were, a new lease of life to the Act of 1920. Accordingly I should like to press upon the Government that it would be desirable to bring forward a consolidation of the Unemployment Insurance Acts, if it be possible to do so.
I anticipate one answer, based on the question of time. But the question of time does not affect this matter. Time does affect in a more than usual degree in the coming year the state of business in the other House, but I should like to point out that Consolidation Bills occupy no time on account of the system under which they proceed by means of the Joint Committee, and the ratio exsistendi of the Joint Committee is that those Bills which are not very happy on the floor of the House should be remitted to it. They practically take up no time in either House, and it has been the practice, and, I believe, on the whole a salutory one, for several years now for both Houses to accept the Report of the Joint Committee on any Bill, and not to attempt to amend it or even discuss it. Therefore I hope the Government will not feel that if they brought in a Bill upon that subject it would interfere with the course of more absolutely necessary legislation. I beg to move the Motion that I have placed on the Paper.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD HAILSHAM)
My Lords, I hope that the House will accept this Resolution. I think that those members of this House who have not actually served upon a Consolidation Committee, and who are not lawyers, perhaps hardly appreciate the value of the work which is done by the Consolidation Committee, both in clarifying the law and in rendering it more convenient of access to the profession as well as to laymen. I believe 354 that consolidation, wisely carried out, is of real assistance to the community at large, and I think that both Houses of Parliament and the public have reason to be grateful to those Committees which have for so long very carefully gone through a very tedious task, which has no spectacular advantage and yet which is doing really valuable service.
With regard to the observations which fell from the noble and learned Lord as to the Bills which he hoped to see consolidated, your Lordships will remember that when the Companies Bill was passing through this House last Session I indicated that it was the intention of the Government to effect consolidation before the Statute became operative. That intention, naturally, still exists. I have every reason to believe that the Consolidation Bill is in an advanced stage of preparation, and I hope, therefore, it may be possible to introduce it at no very distant date. With regard to the question of the Unemployment Insurance Acts, I can only say that I am quite sure that the Ministry of Labour, which is the Department directly affected, will pay due consideration to the arguments that the noble and learned Lord has brought forward, but I am not in a position to give any undertaking as to whether or not consolidation will be proposed with regard to that legislation. I think it is somewhat altruistic of the noble and learned Lord to suggest it, when I remember the very arduous nature of the task which he will necessarily undertake when he embarks upon consideration of the Companies Acts, which will come first. I think his Committee will be quite sufficiently occupied with the consideration of that Bill for some little time. However that may be, I am quite sure that the Consolidation Committee is a very valuable one, and I hope your Lordships will unanimously agree to the Motion.

§ LORD DANESFORT
My Lords, I should like to ask the noble Lord who introduced the Motion, to whom I think this House is very grateful for his very interesting speech, whether there is any practice as to when Consolidation Bills on particular subjects are introduced—for instance, as to the period of time which would elapse between the first Bill to be consolidated and the last Bill. One can see that there are 355 certain subjects which require almost immediate consolidation—the Companies Acts, for instance—and to my mind there is an increasing number of cases where early consolidation is really absolutely necessary. That is due largely to the practice, which I think is inevitable now, of legislation by reference. It is a horrible thing to do, but it is a thing which has to be done, and, disagreeable as it is for the Legislature, I can assure the House that it is far more disagreeable for the people who have to interpret the law. You have to get down a whole library of books before you are in a position to ascertain the law applicable to a particular case. That being so, I would ask the noble and learned Lord whether it is possible in those innumerable cases of legislation by reference to have a Consolidation Act as soon as possible, so as to enable those practising at the law to interpret the law, and those who are sitting as Judges to administer it. I do not suppose that the cost is very great, because it is only the cost of printing, and the advantages, as the Lord Chancellor has pointed out, are very great indeed. Perhaps the noble Lord will from his experience tell me what is the practice which prevails in regard to bringing in Consolidation Bills.

§ LORD MUIR MACKENZIE
My Lords, I think the bringing in of Consolidation Bills depends almost entirely upon the amount of time that can be given to that work in the Parliamentary Counsel's Office. I think Consolidation Bills, desirable as they are, can only come behind the positive legislation that the Government finds necessary in a particular Session. I have already referred to the present Session, when it continues after Christmas, and to the general view that there will be an Election before very long. Time seems to press, and I can well understand that the Parliamentary Counsel must find themselves in very considerable difficulty as to the work coming directly before them. On the other hand, it is a matter in which I think it is quite 356 possible for them to get assistance. It is not like dealing with some technical matter with regard to unemployment insurance or agriculture, or whatever it is, where it is desirable that the Government should have the work done entirely by the Parliamentary Counsel themselves. I think they can very well, for the purpose of the technical work of consolidation, get someone—perhaps I may be allowed to use an unparliamentary expression and say "get a devil"—for the purpose of that work. The time of Consolidation Bills coming in depends entirely upon the time of the draftsmen. As to the Committee, if your Lordships are good enough to approve of my Resolution, as you have done in previous years, the Consolidation Committee, at any rate, is always ready to take up any work of the kind which is brought forward.