HL Deb 21 November 1928 vol 72 cc259-64

LORD OLIVIER rose to ask the Secretary of State for India whether His Highness the ex-Maharajah of Nabha has been deposed by His Majesty's Government in India, and if so, at what date cannot be brought to book. If this debate has done nothing else it clearly points to the fact that these various statements with regard to the success of Safeguarding, to prices not being increased, to the effect on unemployment and on increased production, cannot be substantiated except in the case of lace, and then only to a trifling extent, by any statistics. There it is. I know my Motion will be defeated. Our Motions always are defeated. We are quite aware of that, but we shall carry on this campaign in the country, and Protection or Safeguarding, whichever you call it, will again be rejected by the sound common sense of the people when the Election comes.

On Question, Whether the Motion shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 13, Not-Contents, 50.

CONTENTS.
Beauchamp, E. Arnold, L. Hemphill, L.
De La Warr, E. [Teller.] Clwyd, L. Muir Mackenzie, L.
Russell, E. Farrer, L. Olivier, L.
Gainford, L. Parmoor, L.
Allendale, V. Gorell, L. [Teller.]
NOT-CONTENTS.
Salisbury, M. (L. Privy Seal.) Vane, E. (M. Londonderry.) Gage, L. (V. Gage.)
Glendyne, L.
Bertie of Thame, V. Greenway, L.
Sutherland, D. Elibank, V. Hayter, L.
Peel, V. Howard of Glossop, L.
Abingdon, E. Hunsdon of Hunsdon, L.
Airlie, E. Banbury of Southam, L. Jessel, L.
Clarendon, E. Bledisloe, L. Lawrence, L.
Cranbrook, E. Carson, L. Merrivale, L.
Iveagh, E. Clanwilliam, L. (E. Clanwilliam.) Mildmay of Flete, L.
Lucan, E. [Teller.] Newton, L.
Malmesbury, E. Cushendun, L. Ormonde, L. (M. Ormonde.)
Midleton, E. Danesfort, L. Ponsonby, L. (E. Bessborough.)
Munster, E. Daryngton, L.
Onslow, E. Desart, L. (E. Desert.) Ranfurly, L. (E. Ranfurly.)
Plymouth, E. [Teller.] Desborough, L. Roundway, L.
Scarbrough, E. Dunmore, L. (E. Dunmore.) Ruthven of Gowrie, L.
Stanhope, E. Ebbisham, L. Sempill, L.
Stradbroke, E. Fairfax of Cameron, L. Templemore, L.

Resolved in the negative, and Motion disagreed to accordingly.

that action was taken. The noble Lord said: My Lords, the Question of which I have given Notice arises out of a statement made in another place by the Under-Secretary of State for India last Monday week, in reply to a Question by Mr. Thurtle, who asked the number of cases in the last ten years in which Indian ruling Princes have been deposed at the instance of the paramount power or have abdicated. Earl Winterton replied:— During the period mentioned, one ruler of an Indian State has been deposed—namely, the Maharajah of Nabha. The statement that the Maharajah of Nabha had been deposed was to me a perfectly new statement.

There has been a great deal of controversy in India in regard to the manner in which the Maharajah of Nabha has been dealt with by the Indian Government, and the grievances, as they are conceived, of that Prince have been the foundation of a very serious amount of agitation in his State. In February, 1924, I made the following statement with regard to the Maharajah of Nabha:— Excuse was taken of the fact that the Maharajah of Nabha had been deposed. Then I contradicted myself, and I said:— no, not exactly deposed. The Maharajah of Nabha was a profligate and vicious ruler who entirely ignored the interest of his country for many years. We did not interfere.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (VISCOUNT PEEL)

Who interrupted you to say this?

LORD OLIVIER

I interrupted myself, since I slipped into using the word "deposed." I went on to say:— The Maharajah of Nabha was a profligate and vicious ruler who entirely ignored the interest of his country for many years. We did not interfere. He then committed outrages upon the subjects of a neighbouring Maharajah, and the latter brought an action against him. The matter was judicially dealt with, the whole record of the Maharajah of Nabha was gone into, and it was intimated to him that he should pay compensation to his neighbour, and should demit his office in favour of his son, his son being placed under a regency. That was my statement, which, as I have said, was the subject of my own correction; but, even so, the statement was taken exception to by my noble friend the Marquess of Reading, who was Viceroy of India—I am sorry that he has had to leave the House to-night—because he thought that it went too far with regard to the action taken by His Majesty's Government. He suggested that this action had not gone so far as to intimate to the Maharajah of Nabha that he should resign his Principality, but the fact was that it had been intimated to the Maharajah that there was a very serious accumulation of evidence about his proceedings which in certain contingencies might be published.

I am ready to agree that the noble Marquess's description may have been more accurate than my own, but nevertheless I think he made a distinction without a difference. We were both agreed, no doubt, that it was not correct to say that the Maharajah of Nabha had been deposed, but ever since there has been a great deal of agitation among the Maharajah's friends, and I have received volumes of correspondence and bound volumes of memoranda, even so late as last summer, urging that the Maharajah of Nabha was treated quite illegally by His Majesty's Government, that he had never been deposed and that he had never resigned, but had simply been pushed off the throne in an arbitrary manner to gratify a rival Prince. That feeling, since the Maharajah is a spiritual Prince and is regarded with religious veneration by the Sikhs, his subjects, has continuously given rise to a great deal of unrest and agitation. I am very glad to hear that this is now dying down, but the controversy has been based on the suggestion that the Maharajah had neither been deposed nor had he resigned. I have been asked repeatedly to reopen this matter, but I have always said that I would not. My opinion is that the Maharajah is properly off the throne, that if he had been deposed it would have been proper to depose him and that, whatever his position, I should do nothing to indicate that I thought either that the Maharajah has any grievance or that his subjects have any grievance.

The position was made very much clearer by the statement of Lord Winterton that the Maharajah had been deposed, and I wish to know from the noble Viscount whether that word is accurately to be used and is a correct statement of the case and, if not, what are the circumstances that have brought the Maharajah of Nabha to his present position. The noble Viscount was in office at the time when the Maharajah vacated his position, and if the Maharajah has actually been deposed, if it is the view of the Government that he was deposed, I wish to be informed of the fact so that this controversy may be set at rest and that we may have no more of this continual agitation on the part of friends of the Maharajah on the ground that he has not been deposed nor has he resigned his office. That is why the statement of Lord Winterton arrested my attention, and that is why I would ask the noble Viscount to give us a definite statement of his view on the subject at the present time.

VISCOUNT PEEL

My Lords, I regret that my noble friend Lord Reading has not been able to remain here. He was anxious to say something on the subject because he was particularly familiar with all the events that took place in connection with the Maharajah of Nabha in 1923, when the noble Marquess was Viceroy of India. I am not quite sure whether the noble Lord opposite lays great stress upon the particular definition that he attaches to the word "deposed."

LORD OLIVIER

I presume that Lord Winterton had some definition in his mind, for he said that the Maharajah of Nabha had been deposed and, in effect, that the Maharajah of Indore had resigned his appointment because he had thought better to do so.

VISCOUNT PEEL

I am perfectly aware that there may be a distinction, but if the noble Lord will let me answer I think he will see what I mean. I am not quite sure of the precise meaning that the noble Lord attaches to the word "deposed," but I think it will be best for me to state in a sentence or two the facts of the case, and then the noble Lord can draw his own conclusions. The noble Lord will acquit me of the necessity of going at length into this case, because he has told us that he has seen a very large number of documents and memorials and he knows how complicated are the facts and how voluminous the memoranda on the subject. The short facts, however, are very simple. It was in 1923 that the Maharajah of Nabha was permitted to sever his connection with the State. I have here the conditions of this permission, but I do not think it is necessary to give them all to the noble Lord, because they were published at the time and I think he is probably very familiar with them. The last condition was that the Maharajah would be permitted to retain his titles and salute, and would receive an allowance from the State.

Those rights were abrogated in February of this year, and accordingly, when the noble Lord asked me what particular phrase should be applied to those two events and what is the date on which the Maharajah was, or was not, deposed, I think I can only answer in rather general terms that what took place happened on two occasions and that, as a result of the second occasion, in 1928, not only has the Maharajah no connection with the administrative side of State but he has been deprived under these conditions of the right to retain his title and the salute, and of the right to receive an allowance from the State. I think, therefore, that I must leave the noble Lord to draw his own conclusion as to which of these acts had the effect of removing the Maharajah from his State, or whether it was both of them together. It is a matter of inference on which the noble Lord can draw his own conclusions. I simply state the facts and the dates.

LORD OLIVIER

I should like to make one observation. I am much obliged to the noble Viscount——

VISCOUNT PEEL

I do not wish to stop the noble Lord, but is he entitled to make a speech?

LORD OLIVIER

By leave of the House I should like to say that the information that the noble Viscount has given me—that on a certain date in this year the Maharajah was definitely deprived of his salute and of his allowance—certainly does introduce a new factor into the situation, and, I should say, definitely completes the deposition. I am very much obliged to the noble Viscount for stating the matter, and I think it is useful that he should have elucidated the fact that the Maharajah has now definitely been deposed.

VISCOUNT PEEL

That is the conclusion of the noble Lord, of course.

LORD OLIVIER

Yes.

VISCOUNT PEEL

I did not use that word.

House adjourned at ten minutes past seven o'clock.