HL Deb 23 November 1927 vol 69 cc223-7
LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY

My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government whether they can give any information regarding the reported outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease in the New Forest.

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (LORD BLEDISLOE)

My Lords, I am glad that the noble Lord has raised this Question, because there is no doubt that there is a certain amount of alarm in the public mind, which has been occasioned perhaps by somewhat exaggerated paragraphs in certain organs of the Press, in relation to the serious outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease which have occurred in the neighbourhood of the New Forest. I believe a suggestion has been made, in consequence of the alarm which exists among certain residents in that district, that the ordinary-policy of slaughter which is adopted in cases of foot-and-mouth disease should be abandoned on the ground of expense, and also on the ground of the large number of animals being destroyed. I want quite frankly to admit that there is probably no area—in fact, I may say there is no area—in the whole of the Kingdom where the risk of the spread of the disease, when once an outbreak has occurred, is so great as in the New Forest. The difficulty of preventing the spread of the disease is probably also greater there than anywhere else, with the possible exception of the Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire. The reason for that is that there is a very large unenclosed area of no less than 48,000 acres in the New Forest, where at the present time not only have those who graze cattle and other stock a considerable number of that stock running in the Forest and on the commons in the Forest, but there is a very large number of pigs now roaming about the Forest, picking up the acorns and the beech mast, which are both very plentiful this autumn. It stands to reason that when once you get outbreaks of so highly infectious a disease as this in such an area the policy of restriction is extremely difficult to carry out.

I ought perhaps to mention that the first outbreak occurred on November 15, that is, exactly a week ago, and already there have taken place no fewer than fourteen outbreaks in this area, but all within the scheduled area of fifteen miles, and we believe that the likelihood of the disease spreading outside that area is remote. I may mention that the scene of these outbreaks is a place called Totton, near Southampton, and unfortunately it involves bringing within the restrictive area the important port of Southampton, where there is a certain traffic in animals between the Channel Islands and the mainland. Just to show that the Ministry have not been at all inactive in this case, may I mention that its staff of inspectors is normally two in the Hampshire district, but there are now no fewer than 27 on duty, under the direction of the Deputy Chief Veterinary Officer of my Department? Some of these are engaged on the infected places, and the remainder are on patrol work examining the animals in the area. These latter are kept distinct—this is rather an important point—from the inspectors who are working in the infected places, and all due precautions as to personal disinfection are strictly observed.

I ought to mention also that the main trouble in connection with the outbreak, as occurred in the case of the very serious outbreak in Cheshire three years ago, is that undoubtedly certain persons have failed to report the existence of the disease among their animals for some time after it must have been apparent to them, and possibly to others. The number of animals actually slaughtered or condemned to be slaughtered is approximately 118 cattle and 238 pigs. The Emergency Restrictions Order was put into operation immediately the disease was suspected on November 15, prohibiting the movement of animals out of a five mile radius from Totton, and this was, as is the usual custom, extended to fifteen miles immediately the existence of the disease had been confirmed by the Ministry's officer. It was considered necessary to collect and detain all the animals running in the New Forest, and an order was made on November 18 requiring every owner to do this and to report to the police. So far the disease has been confined to an area of less than ten miles in diameter, with a circumference roughly running from Romsey, Totton, Brockenhurst, Ringwood, Fordingbridge, Downton, Whaddon, back to Romsey. The lesions present in certain of the cases clearly indicate that the disease had existed in the area from two to three weeks before being actually reported, and the spread of the disease had been encouraged by the fact that at this time of the year several thousands of pigs are running in the Forest feeding upon the heavy crop of acorns and beech nuts. The question of legal proceedings against the owners for failing to report is now under consideration.

Some of your Lordships are anxious to know, I think, something with regard to the forest ponies and also the deer in the Forest. The forest ponies, of course, may possibly act as mechanical carriers of the disease; but it was found that rounding up the ponies in the Forest enclosures was impracticable as their collection would take several weeks and involve the risk of spreading disease in the operation. It has been arranged for certain police officers to patrol the outride boundary of the dangerous area on motor cycles night and day to keep the ponies to the confines of the Forest as far as possible. With respect to the deer, I am given to understand that there are several hundreds of deer widely scattered throughout the Forest. The infected area covers the normal range of the deer. It is not considered necessary to take action with regard to the deer at present; but the Master of the New Forest Staghounds and the Forestry Commissioners state that if desired they will co-operate in organising a drive for the purpose of shooting a certain number of deer in order to ascertain whether any have contracted the disease. Deer, of course, are amongst the animals that will contract the disease, although not so readily as such domestic animals as cattle and sheep. I would also mention that the Verderers of the Forest have also most loyally co-operated and have instructed their agisters to do everything possible to restrict the area of contagion. In all the above operations the staff of the Ministry has been ably supported by the co-operation of the local authority officials and particularly by the police.

The only other thing I think I ought to add, in view of this demand for scrapping the slaughter policy, is that considering the number of outbreaks which are still prevalent on the Continent, although very much fewer last year, we really have net had any very serious prevalence of foot-and-mouth disease in the country during the present year. It is true that during the autumn there has been a somewhat alarming recrudesence of the disease; but we believe it is well in hand and we believe also that the slaughter policy is deemed to be justified, both in dealing with the disease and as to the expense as compared with what is happening in other countries where there is a much more serious loss of stock. I hope the noble Lord opposite will consider that a satisfactory reply to his Question, I do not want to minimise the seriousness of the outbreak because it is a serious outbreak; but there is no necessity at present to be alarmed as to the spread of the disease to other districts.

LORD MONTAGU OF BEAULIEU

My Lords, can the noble Lord who has replied for the Government tell us anything about the origin of the disease? Did it come through Southampton, for instance? Has he any information about that? It might interest your Lordships to know that I can remember the deer in the New Forest for over fifty years and I have never known them to be affected. They run in places which are not as a rule frequented by cattle; that is to say, in the enclosures and not in the open forest. Therefore, I do not think there is any risk really of their spreading the disease at the moment. The noble Lord might like to know that the area as measured from Totton to Lyndhurst is comparatively small—smaller at any rate than the measurement he gave. It is only on the northwest of the Forest that there is any trouble. Smallholders and others who have lost all their cattle in consequence of this outbreak, after having lost their harvest or having gathered a very bad one, are in a most unfortunate position.

LORD BLEDISLOE

My Lords, in reply to the noble Lord, Lord Montagu of Beaulieu, as in most other cases, unfortunately, we were unable to trace the origin of the outbreak. Particular care was taken in examining the stock in all the local markets to see that it was not prevalent in the markets or spread from market to market or from market to farm.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY

My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord for the information he has given. I congratulate myself on having elicited the facts of this case. Whenever an outbreak of this sort occurs there is bound, especially in the locality, to be exaggerated ideas of what is happening and of the danger incurred. And to get from the Ministry of Agriculture the full unexaggerated facts is a valuable thing. I thank the noble Lord for the information he has afforded.

House adjourned during pleasure.

House resumed.