POOR LAW EMERGENCY PRO VISIONS (SCOTLAND) BILL. (Hansard, 23 March 1927)

§ VISCOUNT YOUNGER OF LECKIE
My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend Lord Novar, I have been asked to put to the noble Duke a question as to whether his proposed new clause to limit the amount of relief has been considered since the Committee stage of the Bill. The noble Marquess the Leader of the House promised to give this matter some consideration, and to see whether this or some other safeguard might be introduced into the Bill.

THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND
The Government have most carefully considered the possibility of working in this Amendment in some form or other and they regret very much that they cannot see their way to accept it in the form in which it is moved, as it would be quite impossible from the administrative point of view.

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH
May I ask whether that answer applies to the next Amendment [information as to financial resources of applicants for relief]?

THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND
It applies to that also. I shall not go into the arguments used in the Committee stage, unless the noble Duke desires it, but the answer does apply to both Amendments.

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH
I must say that the action of the Government is most disappointing. On the Committee stage I think the Leader of the House 740 must have been strongly impressed by the arguments of my noble friend Lord Novar and of other noble Lords from Scotland in urging these Amendments. He was very conciliatory, and gave us great hope that the Government would at this stage—not take the Amendments then proposed but re-draft them, and put down a Government Amendment. I have no doubt that my noble friend has done his best, and I regret that he has not succeeded, because I think it would have done a good deal to allay the bad feeling raised over the procedure proposed in the Bill.

§ VISCOUNT YOUNGER OF LECKIE
My Lords, I join the noble Duke in regretting very much that neither of these Amendments can be accepted by the Government and that there is no other Amendment that can be suggested in their place. As we are now under the law of England in Scotland in this matter till 1928 we wanted to try to safeguard ourselves in some way or other from the kind of thing which happened in Poplar and Chester-le-Street. The natural safeguards in Scotland are perhaps stronger than they might have been if this had not been thrashed out. But where are they going to get the money? That is what I should like to ask. They certainly will not get it from the banks, and after the experience we have had in this matter I do not think they will get more from the Government. Therefore there are two safeguards left, although they do not appear in the Bill.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
My Lords, I should not like my noble friends to have any feelings of soreness in respect of these Amendments. It is perfectly true that the Government by the mouth of my noble friend the noble Duke (the Duke of Sutherland) and my own mouth, promised to do all we could to have these things carefully considered before the Report stage. I hope your Lordships will give me credit for having kept my word. I have had three interviews with the Scottish Office in respect of these Amendments since the sitting of the Committee. I did not conceal from your Lordships that in regard to one Amendment I had personally a great deal of sympathy with it, yet I was unable to satisfy the Scottish Office that the machinery which was provided or could be provided for the carrying out 741 of these projects was feasible and, therefore, it was impossible for us to proceed any further. I should be very sorry indeed if your Lordships thought, or if my two noble friends thought, I had not been as good as my word.

§ VISCOUNT YOUNGER OF LECKIE
We are quite sure of that.

THE LORD SPEAKER
I understand that neither of these two Amendments is moved.