§ LORD STRACHIE rose to draw attention to the importation of dairy produce from overseas; and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: My Lords, I put 324 down this Notice at the request of the council of the Central Chamber of Agriculture. Many of your Lordships know that council very well and indeed the Parliamentary Secretary of the Ministry of Agriculture, before he took office, was one of the most prominent members of that body. Therefore he knows that it is very representative of agricultural feeling in this country. The matter arose at a meeting of the council of the Central Chamber of Agriculture because a Question had been put in the House of Commons by General Clifton Brown regarding the importation of milk from Ireland and the Channel Islands which was not produced under conditions which would comply with the Milk and Dairies Order. I think most of your Lordships will agree that whether the Milk and Dairies Order was right or wrong, it is not fair to the farmer to put upon him heavy expense if he has to compete with milk imported from abroad or from Ireland which has been produced under conditions which would not be allowed in this country.
§ The answer given by Mr. Chamberlain in the House of Commons was that no milk was imported from the Irish Free State, but a well-known farmer stated that he had seen at Paddington Station seventeen churns which he found did not contain milk but contained cream. That is almost a distinction without a difference because if milk is not produced under healthy conditions the cream is just as bad as the milk. Therefore I think a case for inquiry does arise. Some of your Lordships will agree with me that certainly a great many farms in Ireland would not pass a test under the Milk and Dairies Order.
§
Then there is the larger question of milk coming from abroad. At the time when the Milk and Dairies Order was debated in this House last Session the noble Lord who is Parliamentary Secretary of the Ministry of Agriculture said that most civilised countries were far ahead of us in this matter. He then went on to say:—
I am not going to quote countries—because I should have to quote almost every country which was likely to carry any sort of conviction to your minds—
I wish he had told us which were the countries in which milk is produced under these wonderful conditions, conditions
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even better than those laid down in the Milk and Dairies Order. I must say that in the few countries of Europe that I know the farm buildings would not pass the test of the Milk and Dairies Order. Therefore I was rather surprised at that statement.
§ What I am specially anxious to know in regard to milk and cheese and butter coming from abroad is whether the noble Lord can give us any information as to what the Ministry of Health intends to do in this matter; whether the Ministry is going to say that in future no milk or cream or other dairy produce shall be brought into this country unless it is produced under conditions as good as those under which they are produced in this country. I think your lordships will agree that otherwise it would be very unfair to the British farmer who has a great deal to contend with and for whom in many parts of the country conditions are very serious. Speaking as a Free Trader, I say we certainly ought to have fair play all round. If obligations are put upon our farmers in regard to dairy products, the same obligation ought to be put upon those dairy products which are imported from abroad and so seriously compete with our own produce as to make it very difficult in some cases for the farmer to make a profit. I beg to move.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (LORD BLEDISLOE)My Lords, the Question of my noble friend Lord Strachie has been addressed to me at very short notice and I hope that he and you will excuse me if I reply somewhat shortly to his somewhat wide interrogatory. First of all, I should like to tell my noble friend that no milk whatever is at the present time imported into this country from Ireland. There is, as he has indicated, a considerable quantity of cream imported, the bulk of which comes in churns from ports in the Irish Free State. But even the cream imports have been reduced to some extent during the last twelve months. In 1925 the imported cream from this source amounted to 46,214 cwts. In the last completed year this figure was 40,150 cwts.
It is understood that the whole of this cream comes from creameries, which, whatever may be the state of the cowsheds or byres to which my noble friend 326 has referred, are, generally speaking, excellently administered and under very strict Regulations. Moreover, the bulk of this cream is pasteurised before despatch to this country, a very small quantity only arriving in an unsterilised or unpasteurised condition. As regards the quality, about which my noble friend seems to entertain some doubt, all dairy produce brought to this country from Ireland is subject to the Imported Food Regulations of the Ministry of Health which operate just as drastically as regards Irish produce, Irish milk and cream and other dairy produce, as they do with regard to imports of the same kind from other countries. Of course, the object is to ascertain whether these products are fit for human consumption. If they are not fit for human consumption, under the Regulations they would not be admitted. Even my zealous Free Frade friend admits that that is a permissible restriction to impose upon goods imported from other countries. I think I can reassure my noble friend, at any rate as regards the future, that there is not likely to be anything in the nature of severe competition with the producers of milk and milk products in this country.
Until January 1 next—and we must give due notice in these matters—imported cream may contain boric acid preservative. But, after the end of this year, the importation of preserved cream will be absolutely prohibited and, unless special attention is given to the cleanliness of production and the pasteurisation of the product, it will be impossible for cream to be sent from Ireland to this country in a marketable condition. There is an Act of the Irish Free State, the Dairy Produce Act, 1924, which appears to ensure that cream produced in that Dominion will be clean and pure. Under that Act it is provided that any person who supplies to a creamery dirty, contaminated or stale milk or cream, or who supplies milk or cream which is contained in a dirty vessel, shall be guilty of an offence, and that all premises in which dairy produce is manufactured for sale must be in a state of cleanliness and good repair, and that there shall be available on, or reasonably near, the premises an adequate supply of good and wholesome 327 water. All Irish cream coming here comes from creameries which are subject to those Regulations and restrictions and I am informed that the inspection of creameries throughout Ireland is most efficient and most thorough. I hope that with those few words I have been able to reassure my noble friend Lord Strachie on this matter.
§ LORD STRACHIEI am much obliged for the information which the noble Lord has given to me and I do not press for Papers.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI would like to call your Lordships' attention to the procedure which the noble Lord has pursued. He put down his Question last night and it only appeared on the Paper this morning. That does not matter to His Majesty's Government, but, as there are many of us who take a great interest in the matters, I think it is trying 328 your Lordships rather hardly if such very short Notice is given. That applies not only to the procedure of the noble Lord but generally, and I venture to express a very humble hope that noble Lords will be able to give the House a little more Notice before they bring forward their Motions.
§ Motion, by leave, withdrawn.