HL Deb 13 December 1926 vol 65 cc1552-3

Clause 8, page 6, line 34, leave out line 34 and insert ("on summary conviction be liable, in the case of a first offence, to a fine not exceeding five pounds and, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, to a fine not exceeding ten pounds.").

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Bledisloe.)

LORD STRACHIE

My Lords, I should like to ask my noble friend the reason why it is proposed to reduce the penalties in respect of offences under Clause 8 to £5 and £10, whereas the penalties under other clauses are £20 for the first offence and £50 for subsequent offences. Offences under Clause 8 might be very serious indeed and might result in a good deal of damage to those concerned. Therefore, I think some explanation ought to be given as to the reasonableness of these smaller penalties, which seem to snake it almost worth while in certain circumstances for an offence to be committed.

LORD BLEDISLOE

My Lords, the reply is quite simple. The general penalties under this Bill are up to £20 for a first offence and up to £50 for the second and subsequent offences. As my noble friend Lord Strachie will notice, this Amendment only excludes from the imposition of the heavier penalties what are really technical offences. This refers to failure on the part of the person to give the statutory statement in such form as may be prescribed in a case where he is required by the Act to do so, and there is no suggestion of fraud in that. If the noble Lord will turn to Clauses 16 and 19 or, particularly, to Clause 14, he will find that Clause 14 begins in this way:— If any person fraudulently— (a) tampers with any article so as to procure that any sample of it … does not correctly represent the article. That, obviously, is a much more serious offence and involves fraud. It is only desired in reducing the penalty to do so in the case of these more technical offences which do not involve allegations of fraud.

LORD STRACHIE

I do not press my objection, but I should like to know the reason why, if these are only technical offences, the Bill as introduced contained the heavier penalty for them.

LORD BLEDISLOE

My Lords, I hope the noble Lord will not bully me overmuch for my apparent negligence in submitting these Amendments to the House. On mature consideration we are sometimes able to amend Bills and I hope the noble Lord will agree with this Amendment.

On Question, Motion agreed to.