§ LORD SHANDON rose to ask if His Majesty's Government has or is prepared to take any steps to provide a lift in the 116 British Museum in a position convenient for the public.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, I have put down this Question with regard to the provision of a lift in the British Museum in order to direct attention to a matter which is causing very considerable inconvenience to the visitors to that great institution. I understand that the matter lies within the jurisdiction of His Majesty's Department of Public Works, and I trust that their view will be favourable to the provision of this lift. I would wish to explain that, although a small matter in one way, it is really not a small matter when you consider the vast numbers of people who visit this Museum, and who are subject to the difficulties which I will now point out. Attention was directed to it long before the War, and I think I am not wrong in saying that there was a general opinion that it was a matter that should be remedied. Of course, when the War came things like this had to wait. Personally I did not set down any question with regard to this matter until I was satisfied, first, that it was a matter of importance, secondly, that in all probability the views of the Trustees of the Museum would not be unfavourable, and, thirdly, that it would not be a matter either of expense or difficulty.
§ The position of affairs is this. In the construction of the British Museum it was found necessary that the ground level should be of an enormous height, because the exhibits included huge statues and objects of that kind. I think I am right in saying that the upper floors containing the more valuable part of the collection are in this particular case only accessible by means of an enormous flight of stairs of 72 steps. That is exactly twice the height of the staircase which leads to your Lordships' Chamber from the ground level. I think that should satisfy any one who daily has to ascend those steps here that if he had to add to them another flight of steps of the same height it would be not only inconvenient but, unless he were rather robust, it might even be dangerous to his health. The actual fact is—I believe I am stating what is perfectly accurate—that day by day visitors who, either through age or infirmity, are timorous of ascending this huge Jacob's ladder, have to go away without seeing the exhibits. That, of course, is something that is not at all desirable.
117§ When the British Museum was built there were no lifts, but in the case of all the museums since that time provision of this kind has been made. The Victoria Museum has a lift, the London Museum has one, the Museum of the Wallace Collection has one, and the National Portrait Gallery also has one. No modern museum is complete without a provision of this kind. It may be said that there is a lift in the building. That is rather amusing in one respect. When the new Museum in Montagu Place was erected—and it is a considerable distance from the principal entrance of the Museum to Montagu Place—the architect was instructed to provide, and did provide, a lift. That lift, if it could have been worked in accordance with the views of the architect, would have been of some use, but not very much to those who are visiting the old museum. It was found after it was put up—and it is a very elaborate and a very imposing structure of wrought iron and marble—that it would be necessary, if it was worked from the level of Montagu Place, that there should be a staff placed in charge of the hall. The staff has to be on duty all day, and ways and means are necessary, and the expense of that was considered, I think rightly considered under all the circumstances, one which should not be undertaken. All you have to do is to turn the key in the door in Montagu Place and the lift cannot be used. I mention this because of certain inquiries I made when I went to the Museum. I asked one of the staff in the hall whether there was a lift in the building, and whether I could get access to the lift without going up a, flight of stairs. The assistant said there was a lift in the new building, and I remarked "Yes, but that is a long way off." His reply was that it was not so very far.
§ I will explain the process that has to be gone through by a visitor who wishes to visit the floor of the Museum in which are the Etruscan antiquities. It is almost right over the ground floor at the end nearest the main entrance, and this is the process—I assure your Lordships that I have taken great pains to verify it, and it shows how utterly useless this lift is. The first thing you have to do, having discovered the means of getting at this lift—and that is not an easy job—is to traverse the entire length of the old 118 Museum through the part devoted to the Library, and when you come to that you are then confronted with a flight of twenty-two steps. One who is active and knows his way about can get to that flight of stairs in about five minutes. But the case I put is of one who is not robust and cannot proceed at the rate of rapidity of an American tourist. When you get to the flight of stairs you have to traverse a passage between the old and the new Museum, and that passage is two or three hundred feet long. Then you have to go half-way down the Ceramics Hall, descend three or four more steps, and you get at this magnificent lift. You go up in the lift to the next available tier, and go down another twenty steps in order to get to the level of the Egyptian Antiquities Room. Then you have to traverse the whole of the galleries; right down to the first staircase. That is exactly the condition of affairs. It is perhaps not exactly a farce, but at any rate of no practical use. I do not know the view of the Trustees of the Museum, but I think they are not averse from the view that it is an absolute necessity for the British Museum to be in as good a position as all the other Museums in London in regard to this matter.
THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURYMy Lords, the noble Lord has referred to what may be the views of the Trustees of the Museum on this question, and perhaps I may be allowed to say a word or two about it because for more than forty years I have been in regular attendance at the meetings of the Trustees of the Museum. This question came up for consideration before the War, in 1911 or 1912, on the motion of the late Lord Crawford, who was at that time a Trustee. The Trustees made an application to the Office of Works, whether by formal communication or verbally I forget, as to what line they would take, and the reply was that a lift could undoubtedly be provided, but it would be a costly process and involve cutting through a great many stone floors. Then the War came, and after the War the matter has not, so far as I know, been formally raised again, because the Trustees have found themselves constantly faced by the criticism of the Office of Works as to the cost involved in maintaining what is absolutely essential in the Museum.
119 There are certain friendly controversies not infrequently occurring between the Trustees of the Museum and the Office of Works as to what money can be rightly expended on the Museum building. But the noble Lord is perfectly right in saying that the Trustees entirely approve of the provision of a lift and that it is practically impossible to visit the Antiquities part of the Museum by means of the existing lift, which belongs to what is practically another building a long way off, where, of course, it is of the greatest use, but utterly unsuitable for visitors making use of the front entrance and front galleries. I am a little surprised at the. formidable character given to the staircase by the noble Lord. It is an easy staircase, though rather long, and things are exhibited all the way through. There are sixty-nine steps of very easy ascent.
I am not aware that there has been any strenuous demand for a lift on the part of visitors to the Museum. The Trustees, as I say, are entirely favourable to it. They are not apathetic on the subject, and if pressure is brought by the public they will deal with the matter afresh. They have not the smallest objection to the Office of Works constructing a lift which, no doubt, could be constructed at that part of the Museum. No accurate estimate has been made, but we are told that the cost would be round about £1,000 to make the lift from the ground floor to the floor to which the noble and learned Lord referred. That could, undoubtedly, be done, and that it ought to be done, if there is an adequate demand for it, I entirely agree. If I might put the case as a Trustee, I must say it is not one of the matters on which we are pressed by a public demand, which perhaps exists but which is not vociferous and is not pressed with any great urgency. The Trustees are entirely favourable to the provision of a lift, but, at the same time, do not feel that the demand has been very great on the part of the public. I am putting the matter perfectly straightforwardly and without taking sides on a subject which, obviously, can be argued from more than one point of view.
§ THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (VISCOUNT PEEL)My Lords, I am much obliged to the most rev. Primate, as a Trustee of the Museum, for 120 setting the matter so clearly before your Lordships. I understand perfectly the position of the Trustees. They are quite ready that this money should be spent, but they do not think they are justified in pressing it upon the attention of the Office of Works. That is the whole case. I am much obliged to the noble Lord for taking the trouble to perform such a laborious pilgrimage up and down the staircases of the Museum and reporting it so faithfully to the House, but I have to say, as the most rev. Primate has said, that I have had no representations at all. Obviously I have not had them from the Trustees of the British Museum, and from no quarter have I had any strong representations that such a lift is required. I do not think that the authorities of the British Museum are at all backward in putting schemes before the Office of Works, and, since this proposal has not been put forward, I can only assume that in their judgment it is not very greatly required.
The noble Lord opposite compared this staircase most unfairly, I think, with Jacob's ladder, which, 1 understand, was a much steeper erection. The most rev. Primate most accurately stated the number of steps, and I should like to say, and can say from personal experience, that nothing could be easier than the riser of these stairs. There are a great number of landings, which are spacious and, as the most rev. Primate has said, contain various exhibits which might divert the attention and assuage the weariness of those who are going up the stairs if they feel exhausted. I am sorry that the noble Lord finds some difficulty in reaching the lift, but I cannot honestly say that I should be justified by any pressure that I have observed, in urging upon His Majesty's Government the spending of another £1.000, or so, in putting in this lift at the entrance. Perhaps the noble Lord will be content if I answer him quite shortly on this point, since there could of course be no question of making the addition this year, because no provision is made for a lift in the Estimates. I will only say once more that I do not find in any quarter any urgent demand of any kind for the installation of this lift. As the noble Lord knows, and as has been already stated, an immense number of demands have been made to the Office of Works for 121 expenditure in connection with the British Museum. I should be very much obliged if the noble Lord would postpone for a few years his urgent request for the establishment of this lift.