IMPERIAL INSTITUTE BILL. (Hansard, 6 May 1925)

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
My Lords, I do not think your Lordships would want me to delay you more than a minute or two in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, because this Bill, with the modification of the date, is identically the same Bill that was passed by your Lordships last year, according to the advice of the Labour Government which was then in power. It was, of course, a non-controversial Bill. The noble Lords opposite received the policy, and the measure which was founded on the policy, from the Conservative Govern- 72 ment, which, in its turn, succeeded them, and the Bill is now presented to your Lordships in exactly the same form as it left the House last time.
Perhaps the only matter which I ought to deal with is this. According to the original project of the organisation of the Imperial Institute, as it issued from the Conservative Government, it was proposed to dispense with the Exhibition Galleries. That was in accordance with the recommendations of the Committee which reported to the Imperial Economic Conference, when we were in power, but since that time there was, in the time of the late Government, correspondence between the Dominions, and a change of opinion followed. The majority of them became convinced that it was wiser to maintain the Galleries and at the same time a very generous offer was made by a member of your Lordships' House to give the sum of £5,000 a year if this original decision were reversed and the Galleries were maintained.

§ LORD ISLINGTON
It was £5,000 a year for five years.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
I am much obliged to my noble friend. Under these circumstances the policy was altered upon the advice of noble Lords opposite, with which we on our side entirely concurred, and in the present Bill, as in the Bill of last year, the Galleries are retained. That is, I think, the only substantial difference between the Bill and the Report of the Committee upon which the Bill was founded.
The finance of the transaction is set out in the Papers which are before your Lordships. There are to be contributions by the Imperial Government, and contributions by the Dominions. In the case of the Galleries all the Dominions are not prepared to contribute, but the majority of them will do so. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are prepared to contribute. Together with the contribution of the Imperial Government, these contributions are held to be sufficient to maintain the Galleries, though, of course, no figure can yet be accurately fixed. If any noble Lord has any question to put upon the Bill I shall do my utmost to satisfy him. I beg to move.

§ LORD ARNOLD
My Lords, I will try to emulate the brevity of the noble Marquess in saying a few words in support of the Second Reading of this Bill. The Bill, as he has explained, is, except for the alteration of date, the same as that which was passed through your Lordships' House last summer. Since then the circumstances have not changed. It is only the Government that has changed. Whether that change has been to the advantage of the country is a matter a good deal more controversial than I think this Bill will be. I am happy to think—I trust I am not too sanguine in saying this—that, in view of certain changes which were made last year, the Bill in its final form achieves a very large measure of agreement and becomes, I think, to a great extent non-contentious. Certain points were raised in Committee last year by noble Lords, and we, the Government of the day, did our best to meet those points. I was of opinion then, and I hope that my opinion was correct, that to a very large extent agreement was reached, and therefore I am hopeful that the measure will go smoothly through your Lordships' House.
Like the noble Marquess, I will not go into details of that which was clone last summer. I am glad that he referred to the fact that the financial problem in regard to the upkeep of the Galleries was very considerably relieved by the extremely generous contribution of the noble Viscount, Lord Cowdray, who promised £5,000 a year for five years, with the result that the Galleries will be retained. I do not think that I need say more, except that the passage of this Bill is, as the noble Marquess indicated, very long overdue owing to the intervention of two General Elections at, for this Bill, a most awkward moment, so that it has not found its way to the Statute Book and, indeed, a certain amount of embarrassment has thereby been caused. So far as I am concerned I shall be glad to do anything that I can to facilitate its speedy passage. I hope that it will pass through your Lordships' House and through another place without delay, and will at last find its way to the Statute Book.

§ LORD ISLINGTON
My Lords, before your Lordships are asked to read this Bill a second time I should like to inter- 74 vene for one moment to express my gratification that the Bill is again presented to your Lordships' House in a form unaltered from that in which it left us last year under the late Government. It is true that alterations of some importance were made last year in the original draft of the Bill as it was presented to your Lordships' House. As my noble friend Lord Salisbury said, the Bill was originally based on the Report of a Colonial Office Committee, which was appointed to decide upon the future of the Imperial Institute. I should like to point out here that this Report was by no means unanimous. Quite a number, and those by no means the least important, of the members of that Committee took at the time, and expressed their opinion in a Minority Minute, very grave exception to the proposal, as it was then made, to withdraw the Galleries of the Institute.
Those of us who have been intimately connected for many years with the work of the Imperial Institute realise the extremely important and valuable services that the Institute has rendered in the direction of bringing the Imperial producer into close contact with the home industrialist, and a very important feature, I might say an integral part, of that work was undoubtedly supplied by the Galleries. I am very glad to know that this Bill is fairly assured of becoming an Act of Parliament and establishing the Galleries as an integral part of the Institute, and also that the laboratories are to be continued, to conduct their practical investigations, as they have done in the past with such great advantage, especially to the Crown Colonies and the Protectorates. I should like to say here that for these important provisions that have been inserted in the Bill we are indebted, I think, in the first place to the late Colonial Secretary, Mr. Thomas, and to the noble Lord who conducted the Bill in this House, Lord Arnold. I should like also to express my gratitude, along with those who have already spoken, for the very generous grants that have been made by the noble Viscount, Lord Cowdray, to ensure the maintenance of the Galleries for the next five years.
There is only one more point that I should like to bring to the earnest attention of my noble friend, and that is a point that is not embodied—and quite 75 properly so—in the Bill. I would venture to say that the future of the Institute will very largely depend upon the appointment of the Director who, under the governing body, will preside over the work of the Institute. The post has been vacant since the retirement of Sir Wyndham Dunstan in 1923. I venture to hope that every endeavour will be made by the authority, whether it be the Government or the Overseas Department, that controls the Institute in the future to secure the right type of man with the requisite qualities for this most important post. I hope that my noble friend may be able to tell us that before the selection is made there shall be full consultation with the representative governing body that will be set up to conduct the administration of the Institute, including, as it will, representatives of the Dominions, India, the Colonies and Protectorates, all of which, I would remind the House, pay their share towards the maintenance of the Institute.
I sincerely hope that this governing body will be taken into full consultation, and I do so for this reason, that during the seven years I had the honour of presiding over the Executive Council I had some experience of the kind of work which the Director performed in those days, and which I hope the new Director will perform in an even more extended form in the days to come. It is not only necessary that you should have a practical chemist, with scientific experience, in the laboratory, but you want to have a man to act as Director of this Institute who has administrative qualities, and a wide vision of our vast Empire and all the immense potentialities which exist within the realms of the Empire, and of all the varied raw materials and products which emanate from our Dominions, Colonies, Protectorates, and India. You cannot expect in the early days to have as Director a man of the extraordinary experience, as he acquired it, of the late Director, Sir Wyndham R. Dunstan, because he was really a past master in knowledge of the varying products of all parts of the Empire, and of the exact appropriateness of those products within their own lines, as well as in their application, to industry and commerce in this country.
76 All I would suggest is that in making the appointment every effort should be made to secure a man who, at least, has a very sensible tendency towards Imperial appreciation, with, as far as possible, a manifestation from his past career of a knowledge of the products of the Empire, and of what can be done for Imperial trade if those products are brought into constant contact with the manufacturers of this country. I believe, at any rate, that one way of ensuring the appointment of a man who, I think, must possess these qualities, is to suggest to the Government that the Department that appoints should, before doing so, obtain full advantage of advice in consultation with the governing body, including, as it will, gentlemen with practical experience of this type of man, and full knowledge of the qualifications that will be required for a sucessful Director of the Institute. I therefore ask the noble Lord if he can give us some assurance in the direction I have indicated.

§ LORD CLWYD
My Lords. I should like to support my noble friend Lord Islington upon the point which he has made as the desirability, upon every ground, in making the appointment of a Director, of consultation with the Board of Governors. I have myself very little doubt that that will be done, but I hope that the noble Marquess will be in a position to give us a definite assurance on the point. I am in full agreement with the Bill, and have long wished it to come into being, and I am not going to detain your Lordships with any further comments on the Second Reading of the measure. I should, however, like to refer to one point, namely, the inclusion in the Bill of Clause 6, which ensures adequate accommodation in the Institute for Indian purposes. As some of your Lordships will remember, I moved an Amendment on the point last year, and through the support and assistance which I received from my noble friend Lord Arnold, who then represented the Colonial Office in this House, that clause was inserted in the Bill, and I desire to express my personal acknowledgment to him for his assistance in reference to that matter. I will only express the hope that, as this Bill is indeed long overdue, it will pass all its stages early this Session.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
My Lords, I think we may say that this Bill 77 is the pattern of an agreed Bill. There is not a murmur of opposition to it in any quarter of the House, and I am sanguine enough to believe—perhaps I should say hope—that the same fate awaits it in another place.

§ LORD ARNOLD
I am afraid I am to blame for having misled the noble Marquess. Last year the Bill was introduced in this House, but, this year, it has already been through the House of Commons.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
I trust the noble Lord so thoroughly that he even misled me in this respect. The measure has been through another place, and so I may amend my statement and say that it is absolutely an agreed Bill now. There remain the observations of the two noble Lords who have just sat clown with regard to the appointment of Director. I need not say that I share with them the view that it is of great importance that a Director should be properly selected, and I would remind my noble friends that it is not an easy selection. You want not merely a man of technical knowledge and wide outlook, but a man of great administrative capacity, and I need not say that that combination is not a very common one. Therefore great care will have to be taken in the selection of a Director. The appointment lies in the bands of the Minister who is termed in the Bill the "responsible Minister," and that is the Secretary of the, Department of Overseas Trade, but I am able to assure my noble friend that he will take great care to consult fully the governing body before making the appointment. I think that assurance was hardly required, because it is so obvious a duty to throw upon him, but I am able to give that assurance, and I think that, after consulting them, he will be in a position to make the appointment. I will bring the observations of Lord Islington to the special notice of the responsible Minister, and let him know what has been said in this House, because Lord Islington has a great right to address your Lordships on this particular subject, and I am sure the responsible Minister will value his advice.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
I am not quite sure whether your Lordships would wish to have any interval between the Second Reading and the Committee stage.

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS
No.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
In that case I will put the next stage down to-morrow.