MONEYLENDERS BILL. [H.L.] (Hansard, 26 March 1925)

§ LORD CARSON
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on the Bill.

§ LORD DESBOROUGH
My Lords, I beg to move an Amendment to the Motion of the noble and learned Lord. I beg to move to leave out all words after "That" in his Motion and to insert "it is desirable that the Bill be referred to a Joint Select Committee of both Houses of Parliament." I understand that my noble and learned friend has no great objection to this course being adopted provided that it is not of a shelving nature. Although I cannot give him any definite date when the Bill in the other House is likely to he taken, I can assure him that the Government are anxious that both Bills shall be referred to a Joint Select Committee as the quickest way of arriving at some solution of this difficult matter.

§ LORD CARSON
My Lords, my only desire is that the Bill shall be proceeded with. I believe there is a growing feeling 780 in the country that it is a measure of a very pressing nature. I wish that somebody else had received all the correspondence on the subject that has come to me. I am entirely in the hands of the Government because, even if your Lordships pass the Bill, I have no way of bringing it forward in another place unless the Government are prepared to support it. What I would like my noble friend to tell me is whether the Government will give facilities in the other House for a Second Reading of the Bill which is already before that House, or are we to wait while that Bill is blocked night after night until it gets through by some fortuitous chance, or are the Government themselves making a Motion in the other House to refer the Bill which has been introduced there to a Joint Committee without waiting for Second Reading? And are they prepared forthwith to take such steps as will enable the Joint Committee to be set up? that is all I want. When that is done I shall be perfectly satisfied with the offer that has been made in the Motion of my noble friend.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
My Lords, I am very much obliged to my noble and learned friend for the courteous way in which he has received the Amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Desborough. My noble and learned friend is aware, I think, that the Government are very anxious that this Bill and the Commons Bill should be referred to the same Committee: indeed, it is a matter of arrangement in another place that the Bill which is pending there should be referred to a Select Committee. I cannot give my noble and learned friend any more definite assurance than that, but that is the state of the case. I would like to remind him, however, of something he knows very well and which I may be permitted to recall to your Lordships. By the action which the Government are taking in asking that this Bill should be referred to a Joint Select Committee they are not prejudicing him in the least. Supposing my noble and learned friend went on with this Bill, his great position in your Lordships' House would enable him, no doubt, to pass it through this House. It would then go down to another place, but it would get no further unless special measures were taken to assist him. 781 Therefore, by referring it to a Joint Committee we are giving it the very best chance we can.
If he is prepared to do that upon a matter which is very greatly interesting the public, and to fall in with the arrangement which has already been come to in another place, he will have a much better chance of passing his Bill and dealing with this most intricate subject than he would in any other way. It would not be in order, nor would it be decorous on my part, to compare the two Bills, but I have such confidence in my learned friend that I expect his is the better Bill of the two. I confidently hope that he will allow us to pass this Amendment.

§ LORD CARSON
I did not quite understand whether my noble friend said that there has been an arrangement made with the other House. I thought he said so. All we want to do is to expedite the matter.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
Does the noble and learned Lord press his Motion to go into Committee to-day? If so, I must put it.

§ LORD CARSON
No, I am prepared to fall in with the request of my noble friend, because the Government has the whole conduct of the matter.