SUMMER TIME BILL. (Hansard, 23 July 1925)

§ LORD DESBOROUGH
My Lords, at this late period of the evening, after such an interesting and lively discussion as we have had, I shall not detain your Lordships very long. I should like very briefly to sketch the reasons why this Bill is required to be read a second time now, and must be got through as soon as possible. Summer time was in the beginning a War measure. Its purposes were not to improve the amenities of the people, but to save coal and light, and the period was fixed in conjunction with the Allies for military convenience at six months. The Act of 1916 expired in. 1922, but the system had then become so popular that it was absolutely necessary to continue it, and, in agreement with France, a Bill to continue summer time for the period of six months was passed. But both in this country and in France the agricultural interests were strong enough to stop the Bill, and a shorter period was fixed by Parliament, which has continued under the Expiring Laws (Continuance) Act and is the law at the present time.
The experience, however, of bringing summer time to an end in the third week of September, in the very middle of the holidays, when the railway companies had to alter all their time bills one hour, proved such a very great in-convenience to the public that the most serious representations were made against that course being adopted. At the same time, the situation in France also changed, and a Bill was introduced and passed in that country. In the year 1924 there was a second conference with France and Belgium to secure uniformity with regard to this most important measure. The conference agreed to have the full six months of summer time. In 1924 a private Member's Bill was introduced in order to give effect to this agreement, but so great was the opposition from the agricultural interests that no progress was made with it. In February of this year a Bill was again introduced, and the 395 Government undertook that, although it was a private Member's Bill, if it passed the Second Reading by the free vote of the House, they would give it all the Government support they could, providing, that the limit of time, both at the beginning of the period and at the end, should be left entirely to the free vote of the House. This course was adopted. The Bill was read a second time. It went to the Committee, and returned to the House in a practically unaltered state, but on the Report stage there was an alteration made, and a concession was made to the agricultural interest whereby summer time started on the third Sunday in April instead of the first.
Summer time, however, under this Bill is continued to the first Sunday in October. The time is knocked off the beginning and extended at the end. The reason of the farmers' objection to summer time starting so early as the beginning of April is that in most counties there are early frosts, and the arable farmers cannot get on to their fields until the frost is out of the ground. Also with regard to dairy farmers they have to get up one hour before the sun in order to catch the early morning milk trains which start an hour earlier than they used to do. In some eases they have to use artificial light for their cows and have, possibly, to keep them in their stalls ail night. I fully admit that in most cases there is an early hour in the morning which is either lost altogether to agricultural labourers or has to be made up later in the day, when the men want to leave work as a rule when other people leave, and involves the payment of extra time. Those are the objections of agriculturists and I fully admit they are very serious objections.
On the other hand, we have in favour of the system which has been practically the custom of the land since 1916 almost the whole community supported by the, opinion of the British Medical Association. Outside of agriculture and with the exception of certain miners in particular districts, there is an enormous volume of opinion which cannot be neglected in favour of the system of summer time. I fully admit that the Bill in its present form is a compromise and I would like to say to my agricultural friends that there is no doubt that if they tried to curtail the period of summer time in this 396 Bill the Bill would be lost. It is much better for them to agree to this compromise than to submit to the absolute certainty of a Bill being brought into Parliament next year by which they would lose at both ends—a Bill which would go the whole hog of the full six months. I venture to hope, therefore, that your Lordships' House will give the Bill a Second Reading and that regard will be had to the probable effect of any Amendment which would cause the Bill to be lost in the present Session, when the Bill reaches the Committee stage, as I hope it will do.

§ LORD CLINTON
My Lords, I should not like this Motion to be accepted by your Lordships without some protest on the part of agriculturists. I am fully aware that no protest I may make is in the least likely to be in any sense effective because I am bound to acknowledge, and I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Desborough, that the vast majority of the people of the country are in favour of this extension of summer time. May I remind your Lordships that in doing what it is proposed to do for the advantage of the recreation of a very large number of people in this country you are distinctly making the position of agriculturists more difficult and are adding to the expense of many important farming operations. That is all I will say. I am not going to oppose the Second Reading of the Bill.

LORD HARRIS
My Lords, I join with my noble friend in a complaint which is not confined to this Bill—that this country, to use a colloquialism, does not care a hang about agriculture. It does not matter to the country what disabilities are placed upon agriculturists or what hardships it imposes upon them. My noble friend in charge of the said something about agricultural labourers. I do not know that the agricultural labourer objects very strongly to the Bill. I consulted all my employees and the majority were in favour of it. Therefore in any circumstances I should not be disposed to vote against it. The unfortunate person is the farmer. The men turn up at an hour in the morning when they cannot be put to useful work 397 and they go off at an hour in the evening when they could be put to useful work and in order to keep them at useful work for an hour in the evening the unfortunate farmer has to pay overtime. That overtime has been imposed upon him by Parliament. Therefore, I am justified in saying that Parliament does not in the least regard economy in farming or the interests of the farmer. They do not care what hardships they impose upon him, and this is the second imposed this year by a Conservative Government.

EARL RUSSELL
My Lords, contrary to the last two speakers I represent the four-fifths of the population which is in favour of the Bill and I, perhaps, feel some little discomfort in finding myself in the unusual position of being with the majority. I rise to say only one word, and that is that had it not been for the pusillanimity of successive Governments we should have had this permanent Summer Time Bill two or three years ago. It is really ridiculous that it should have been delayed until now. This Government is not free from blame the matter, because there was a period about which I was very much concerned, when the fate of this Bill was in the balance, although there was an enormous majority in its favour in another place. I am very glad that it has reached your Lordships' House, and now that the noble Lord, Lord Desborough, has succeeded in fixing summer time, perhaps he will soon be able to fix Easter.

LORD SANDHURST
My Lords, there is one small point to which I should like to call my noble friend's attention. Down to the time of the Act of 1922 summer time always ended on a Sunday night, so that we had the advantage of an extra hour on Monday morning and had not the disadvantage of an extra hour on Sunday morning for which we had no use. Under this Bill summer time is to close on the last Saturday night of October. Far be it; from me to suggest anything that would endanger the passage of this Bill before the Recess, but I should like to suggest that the noble Lord in charge of the Bill might consider whether it would be possible to substitute for the first Saturday in October the Sunday following the first Saturday in October. I am perfectly certain that would be a great 398 boon to a very large section of the population. In fact, the only people who would not benefit by it, I think, would be the clergy who celebrate early on a Sunday morning, and from what I know of the clergy I am certain that if they thought the interests of the great majority of the people were concerned they would not press their convenience against the alteration. I should be very glad if this point could be considered before the Bill becomes law.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
My Lords, I am profoundly sorry that His Majesty's Government should find themselves in disagreement with two noble friends of mine who represent the agricultural interest so admirably in your Lordships' House. I am sure, however, that they must recognise that it is not a very violent action upon the part of the Government to turn a temporary Act which is always renewed into a permanent Act which does not require renewal. That is really all that is done by this Bill. If my noble friends were good enough to tell me what is in their hearts I am certain they would admit there was no chance whatever of putting an end to summer time. It is only a question of whether the thing shall be regularised and put upon such a footing that everybody may rely upon it every year and that any uncertainty may be prevented. I know there are certain modifications, but, broadly speaking, as far as the principle of the Bill is concerned, it merely puts upon a permanent footing what has been perpetually renewed.
That is done in the interests of the mass of the people, and what was said by the noble Earl opposite is perfectly true, that the mass of the people desire it. I confess it would be almost unthinkable that we should go back to the old state of things. In those circumstances I hope that my noble friends will acquit His Majesty's Government of any desire to be hostile in any way to an interest upon which they have always looked as containing a large body of their own supporters. I hope that my noble friends will believe that our object is always to study their welfare. In regard to the point which the noble Lord, Lord Sandhurst, raised just now, my noble friend will, of course, consider it, although it may be a little difficult at the period we 399 have reached to insert the suggestion in the Bill. Before I conclude I should like to consult your Lordships, especially my two noble friends, as to what day they would be prepared to take the Committee Stage of the Bill. We have suggested that it should be taken next Wednesday, if that is convenient.