HL Deb 09 December 1925 vol 62 cc1227-9
LORD OLIVIER

My Lords, I beg leave to make a personal statement with regard to something which fell from the noble and learned Earl, the Secretary of State for India, yesterday evening. I had left the House when my noble friend Lord Lee of Fareham put his Question about the Government of India (Civil Services) Bill, as I was under the impression that he was not going to raise the question at all last evening. In commenting upon Lord Lee's statement the Secretary of State for India said:— This is the Bill which my predecessor in office, Lord Olivier, recommended to his colleagues, and which I believe had at least received the formal assent of his colleagues at the time when his Government fell. That goes a little beyond the substance of the matter. The Bill was not in existence so far as I was concerned when I left office, and although the Bill does not go further than what I had personally recommended to my colleagues, what I had in fact recommended, of which I left a record for my noble friend's information, had not actually received their formal assent. I left on record the Minute I had written in order that there might be, so far as possible, continuity in the action of the India Office, and in order that my noble friend might be assured that he would get my support in this House for the Bill. I think the record should be corrected by my statement being placed on the records of the House.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (THE EARL OF BIRKENHEAD)

My Lords, I am very much indebted to my noble friend. As a matter of fact the OFFICIAL REPORT of last night's proceedings contains a slight error. I did not say, as the OFFICIAL REPORT represents, that this Bill had received the formal assent of the colleagues of the noble Lord. What I did say—and I believe it is correctly reported in The Times and in most of the newspapers, though I have not consulted them all—was that I had reason to believe that it had received the informal assent of the noble Lord's colleagues. But the intervention of the noble Lord is of great value because he has very candidly stated that he left certain recommendations for his colleagues. He was good enough, by a courtesy which I greatly appreciate and with a desire, I have no doubt, to maintain the continuity of Ministerial tradition, to equip me with the recommendations which he had offered for the consideration of his colleagues. He is perfectly right in saying that it was not in the form of a Bill. But I am equally entitled to say that the recommendations of the noble Lord, well conceived and widely conceived, were the foundation of the Bill which I and my colleagues have recommended to Parliament.

The noble Lord had availed himself of the recommendations of the Lee Commission. The noble Lord was obliging enough to convey to me the impressions which he had derived from those recommendations. I availed myself of the recommendations of the noble Lord and, as far as I was able to do so and with the assistance of the draftsman, I translated them into the terms of a Bill. The noble Lord knows as well as I do the Imperial importance of that Bill passing into law in the present Session of Parliament and I would most earnestly entreat the noble Lord to use all the influence I know that be possesses with those who belong to his Party in another place to see that, while everything that, is disputable in his proposals and mine is closely canvassed, we shall not run the risk of losing this Bill with its immeasurable Imperial consequences by unreasonable obstruction. I know the noble Lord well enough to know that his influence will be used in that direction.

LORD OLIVIER

My Lords, may I add that I wish to make it perfectly clear that my colleagues are in no way estopped from any action they might take in another place in regard to this Bill by my personal commitments which I left on record. They are not estopped from any action they have taken or may take, either because they think the matter has been presented at the end of the Session and they have not had time to deal with it, or for any other reason.

THE EARL OF BIRKENHEAD

My Lords, I think the noble Lord will agree that I am at least entitled to say this to my colleagues in another place, that it is the view of the colleagues of the noble Lord that, reinforced by the high authority of the noble Lord who was then Secretary of State for India, I have presented for their consideration propositions which the noble Lord himself would have presented had he still held my office. That is all I want to say.