Lords Sitting of 9 October 1924

Preamble
The House met at a quarter past four of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

DISSOLUTION OF PARLIAMENT.
THE MARQUESS CURZON OF KEDLESTON: My Lords, I desire to ask the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack whether, in view of the circumstances which passed in another place yesterday evening, he is prepared to make to your Lordships' House an announcement as to the intentions of His Majesty's Government.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT HALDANE): My Lords, the Prime Minister had an audience of the King this morning, and the Sovereign was graciously pleased to direct an immediate Dissolution of Parliament on the advice of the Prime Minister. The Writs will be issued to-night, and, according do the ordinary law, the General Election should be over by the 29th of this month. Then some days must elapse before the proceedings are complete, because the new Parliament has to be sworn. The result of the Election in Orkney and Shetland will come later perhaps, but the Election will be substantially over by the date I have mentioned. Then we shall be in a position to meet Parliament and see what steps shall be taken.
LORD BUCKMASTER: My Lords, may I ask the noble and learned Viscount what is the explanation—I may say the justification—for this extreme haste with the Election? To-day is the 9th of October and the Election, we are told, is going to be over within twenty days. What is the reason for that?
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: The reason for it is that there is nothing more disturbing to the country than a prolonged and protracted General Election, and we are assured that it is the desire of the commercial community and of the general community to get rid of the Election, which is not of our creation, as soon as possible.

IRISH FREE STATE (CONFIRMATION OF AGREEMENT) BILL.
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Arnold.)
On Question, Motion agreed to. House in Committee accordingly:
[The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]
Clause 1 agreed to.
Clause 2:
Short title and commencement.
2.—(1) This Act may be cited as the Irish Free State (Confirmation of Agreement) Act, 1924.
(2) Tills Act shall come into operation on the date on which the said Agreement is confirmed by Act of the Parliament of the Irish Free State, or, if such an Act is passed before the passing of this Act, shall come into operation on the passing of this Act.
LORD CARSONmoved to leave out all words in subsection (2) after "confirmed by," and to insert "Acts of the Parliaments of the Irish Free State and of Northern Ireland respectively or if such Acts are passed before the passing of this Act shall come into operation on the passing of this Act." The noble and learned Lord said: In the course of the speech which I made yesterday on the Second Reading of this Bill I intimated that I should put down an Amendment which is the Amendment now on the Paper and, having regard to the patience with which your Lordships listened to me yesterday, I shall not find it necessary to detain you at any great length in explaining the position. The Amendment is simply this. This is a Bill that proposes to enable certain Commissioners to interfere with the territory (I use a neutral word) that was granted to the Parliament of Northern Ireland by the Act of 1920, and the Bill very properly provides that the measure is not to become law until it has been confirmed by the Parliament of the Irish Free State. That, of course, is quite correct, because there has also been granted to them a Parliament and this Parliament ought not to interfere with what they do without their consent.
But what I cannot understand is why this Parliament should assume the right

669
to go behind the backs of the people of Northern Ireland and, without any consultation or without even giving an intimation of what was going on, should enter into an Agreement which may have the most disastrous consequences in the territory that has been entrusted to the care of the Parliament of Northern Ireland—a Parliament elected on a popular franchise. Therefore, what you are doing is interfering with the democracy of Northern Ireland and trying to take away—or probably to take away—from them some of their territory. The original Treaty, as it was mis-called, was entered into behind the backs of Northern Ireland. Then, when Northern Ireland, within the terms of the Treaty, refused to appoint a Commissioner under the Act, it being a purely voluntary Act, this Bill was brought in as a Coercion Bill to compel Northern Ireland to have a representative upon the Commission. It is a Coercion Bill in the fullest sense. This Agreement is made, also without the slightest intimation to Ulster, without Ulster ever being consulted, and the Bill is brought in. It is for that reason that I move this Amendment, providing that they should be put in the same position as the Irish Free State, and that if this Act has to be confirmed by the Parliament of the Irish Free State it should also be confirmed by the Parliament of Northern Ireland, which this Legislature has set up.
I cannot imagine anything fairer, nor can I imagine anything more detrimental to these local Parliaments than that the Government of this country should, behind their backs, without consultation with them, enter into arrangements which affect their Constitution from top to bottom. This Bill, as I tried to show yesterday, is, on one construction at all events of the terms of Article 12, not merely a Bill that affects the boundary. It must, necessarily and consequentially, affect the contribution. It must also, necessarily and consequentially, affect the representation in the Imperial Parliament and, as I hope I demonstrated to your Lordships yesterday, it knocks the bottom out of the Act of 1920. It is impossible to suppose that, once you have altered their boundary and taken their territory, the same provisions should prevail either
670
with regard to the contribution or the representation in the Imperial Parliament.
I placed this Amendment on the Paper to make my most solemn protest against this interference by the Imperial Parliament with the Parliament which they set up, because it will be utterly impossible for any Parliament, or any body of Ministers, to govern a community if at any moment it is open to the Imperial Parliament to go behind their backs and make fundamental changes in the Constitution they administer, or in the jurisdiction they have over certain portions of the country. Such a thing would be intolerable and no Prime Minister could accept office in such circumstances. You have made the Parliament, for good or bad. Heaven knows that we never wanted the Parliament in Ulster, but you made it and you asked the democracy there to elect that Parliament. You asked that Parliament to appoint Ministers responsible to it and then, behind their backs, you claim the right to interfere with the jurisdiction of that Parliament. That is an intolerable position and one which cannot continue.
I read yesterday with grave anxiety a speech of the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland. Sir James Craig is not a man who speaks without weighing his words. You gave him an almost impossible task in setting up the new organisation of Government that was necessary at a time when the English Government had brought Ireland into a state of anarchy which required all the courage of a clear headed and determined man to put an end to so far as his own district was concerned. I was not surprised, though I was greatly grieved, when I saw that Sir James Craig—one of the calmest and at the same time one of the most determined of men that I ever come across, who loves Ulster more than any man I ever met and has risked his own life and health in connection with what the Imperial Government has put upon him, very often thwarting him in his efforts, but still anxious to go on in the interests of his own Province and of this country and the Empire—had said that if an attempt was to be made behind the back of Ulster to filch away territory which he undertook to govern at your request he would feel it his duty to resign the office of Prime Minister. I can conceive no situation more terrible than would be

671
created in the North of Ireland in those circumstances. His Government would go with him, and you would get no Government to take its place. He said that he would feel it his duty, and I think he was right, to place himself at the head of the people who had trusted him to keep for them that which was the settlement of 1920.
It is an impossible and an intolerable position. If that comes about, I hope the imagination of members of the House of Lords, at all events, is sufficient for them to .see what it means when a Parliament which this Legislature has established comes into conflict with the Parliament that created it because of acts done behind its back which result in the filching away of various districts with which it has been entrusted. How can any man frame a policy? How could my man govern his people, or secure confidence in his Government at all, if such a thing is allowed to go on? I asked yesterday for precedents for treating any Parliament in such a way. The only Act upon the subject that I know is the Colonial Boundaries Act, which only operates in the scheduled districts, but never without the consent of the part of the Colony that is to be affected. This is a new departure, and if you have in your minds the determination to coerce the Parliament which you set up you are thereby coercing the democracy which elects that Parliament and the Ministers whom it trusts. I do not believe that is a matter which can be allowed to exist for one moment without creating between the Parliaments concerned friction which must end in disaster.
I am not going to pursue the subject further. I read lately some very able arguments put forward by Professor Morgan in a series of articles in one of the newspapers. He went into the whole subject and what he said was the more worthy of consideration because he is not on our side. He is a well known Liberal who contributed a great deal to the literature of the old Home Rule problem. He proved up to the hilt that nothing could be more unfortunate than intern ference by the Imperial Parliament with the jurisdiction conferred under such an Act as the Act of 1920, without the consent of the Parliament exercising that jurisdiction. The only way in which these things can be done is by consent, and the
672
policy of coercion that you are entering upon to-day will fail just as certainly as your Lordships are sitting here. Having put a people in the position they occupy, you cannot coerce them. It is as a way out, therefore, that I propose this most reasonable Amendment, which provides that the Parliament of Northern Ireland shall be put in the same position as the Parliament of the Free State and that before this Act comes into force the Parliament of Northern Ireland, which the Imperial Parliament has set up, shall be consulted and shall give its verdict I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 2, lines 2 to 5, leave out from ("by") in line 2 to end of subsection and insert the said new words.—(Lord Carson.)
THE EARL OF MAYO: Yesterday, an Amendment was introduced into the Motion for Second Reading by the noble Marquess, Lord Salisbury. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong moment at which to oppose that Amendment and before I deal with the Amendment moved by the noble and learned Lord I want to say something about the other.
NOBLE LORDS: Order, order!
THE EARL OF MAYO: Your Lordships have called me to order and I will cut my observations somewhat shorter than I intended them to be. The noble Marquess's Amendment was carried in a Division in which thirty-eight of your Lordships who did not approve of it voted against it. I come now to Lord Carson's Amendment. That Amendment is one which simply wrecks this Bill. I do not know whether the noble and learned Lord is going to a Division, but if ho does I shall vote against the Amendment, and I think many others will do the same. I do not suppose the noble and learned Lord really means to wreck the Bill, but these phantom Amendments that are placed before us seem to me to lead to nothing at all. I know as well as possible, and the noble and learned Lord knows, that this Amendment has not the slightest chance of passing your Lordships' House. Your Lordships have given a Second Reading to this Bill, and an Amendment put forward now in Committee stage to wreck the Bill goes against everything that I have known in the course of my experience in this House.

673
What is the object of the noble and learned Lord in doing this? Is it for the sake of making a speech about the whole attitude of the Prime Minister of Ulster and himself in regard to this question, or is it only a political move on his part to suit his following in Ulster? I cannot conceive anything more mischievous than this when we are trying, both in the North and in the South, to keep order on both sides of the boundary. I may say for my part, and I am sure the noble Marquess who sits below me (the Marquess of Londonderry) will agree with me, that we are determined in that country that there should be order now, and if there is not order the Government of Northern Ireland will see to it on their side and I am sure the Government of Southern Ireland will also see to it on their part. I cannot see the object of these Amendments. They pass like a vision before one, meaning nothing, and doing nothing. I say without the slightest hesitation that this Amendment, if carried, would have a mischievous effect in the country in which I live. Having said that, I do not think I need trouble your Lordships very much longer, though I feel very strongly indeed upon this matter. I thought it part of my duty as a Senator of the Southern Parliament to say what I have said in this House.
Some may not agree with me, but that does not affect me in the least, nor will it affect us on the other side of the water. It is beating the air to put forward Amendments like this. The Government will remain in Office till the Election, the Commission will be appointed, and the Bill will pass. I believe there is to be a Royal Commission at six o'clock for the Royal Assent to be signified to it. The whole thing will go through, and will end the matter satisfactorily to us. Before I sit down, let me say this. I have experienced from the Labour Government, whenever I have had to speak to them about anything, the utmost civility and courtesy. With that part of the speech of the noble and learned Lord yesterday, in which he also referred to the Labour Government, I entirely agree. These things are much more serious than they appear here, when you come to the other side of the water. Perhaps it may be "Good-bye"; it may be "Au revoir"; and I wish to take this opportunity of
674
saying that I have experienced the greatest courtesy from the Labour Government whenever I have had to approach them and to ask them about anything. I shall certainly vote against this Amendment.
THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (LORD ARNOLD): Yesterday, on the Second Reading of this Bill, your Lordships thought fit to insert in the Motion for the Second Reading an Amendment the effect of which, I think it is right to say, was to make it apparent to the country that your Lordships wished to avoid making any effective Amendment to this Bill. I need scarcely say that the Amendment which has been moved by the noble and learned Lord is of a totally different character to the Amendment which was inserted yesterday. The noble and learned Lord who moved the Amendment to-day, in the course of the speech he made yesterday, with his usual candour and force, expressed his opinion of His Majesty's Government. I have no complaint to make of that; indeed, I have to thank him in that on more than one occasion he has been good enough to make observations about certain matters which we appreciate. I have also to thank the noble Earl who spoke last for his observations.
But the noble and learned Lord also expressed his opinion about our predecessors, and in the circumstances, in view of all that he said, I can quite understand why he is putting down this Amendment to-day in his own name. He will not be surprised, however, to hear that the Government offers to this Amendment the strongest possible opposition. To pass this Amendment, in fact, to pass any Amendment, would, as I have indicated, be contrary to the position which I understand your Lordships have, after the most careful consideration, quite definitely taken up with regard to this Bill. Your Lordships have made it clear that in all the circumstances you are prepared to let this Bill pass, and to let it pass without amendment.
Let me recall for a moment the course followed by the debate on the Second Reading. When I was moving the Second Reading of the Bill, I submitted that there could be no reasonable doubt as to what was, in fact, the intention both of

675
the signatories to the Treaty and of Parliament, and that intention was that the Boundary Commissioners should be appointed. That view was questioned by some of your Lordships, but it received striking, and I think I may say conclusive, confirmation in the speech which the noble and learned Earl, Lord Birkenhead, delivered. He, as your Lordships know, was himself a signatory to the Treaty, and he informed your Lordships yesterday quite unequivocally that when he signed the Treaty neither he nor, so far as he was aware, any of his fellow signatories contemplated for one moment the situation which has, in fact, now arisen. That statement was confirmation of the view which the present Government entertained, a view which is only in conformity with the evidence afforded by the debates of those times, and, as I explained two days ago at length, it is precisely because of that view that the present Government felt compelled to introduce the present Bill.
This Bill is, in effect, a Bill to establish a Boundary Commission under Article 12 of the Treaty of December, 1921, notwithstanding the fact that the Government of Northern Ireland has declined to participate in that Commission, and the effect of the Amendment is this—and nobody knows it better than the noble and learned Lord himself—that if it were carried it would simply tear the Bill in two.
LORD CARSON: May I ask the noble Lord whether the same effect would not follow if the Parliament of the Free State refused to confirm the Bill?
LORD ARNOLD: I am not discussing that at the moment, I am discussing the Amendment; and the effect of the Amendment would undoubtedly be to tear the Bill in two. That is what it really comes to. Your Lordships, I understand, have declined to consider inserting Amendments in the Bill in Committee stage, and that decision applies to any Amendment. If that is so, how much more must it apply to this Amendment, which realty does destroy the Bill. It is, in fact, equivalent to the rejection of the Bill, and for this reason: that if it were passed it would put the position, back to what it was before the Bill was introduced.
LORD CARSON: A voluntary Bill!
LORD ARNOLD: It would put things back to the position they were in before the Bill was introduced. Therefore, it is an Amendment to which the Government must offer the stoutest opposition. Your Lordships have made quite clear that it is not your intention to enter into direct conflict on this Bill with another place on any Amendment whatever. I can imagine no Amendment which would provoke that conflict in a more direct form than the present one. I do not think I need pursue the matter further. I feel confident that your Lordships will not give this Amendment your support.
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: The noble Lord has referred to the debate which took place yesterday. 'I do not propose to refer to it in any particular, but the fact that the House of Lords agreed to the Second Reading Motion with an Amendment does not, in my judgment, and with great submission to the noble Lord, relieve him from the obligation of dealing with the arguments of noble Lords when moving Amendments on the Committee stage. It may be convenient for him to avoid the arguments used by my noble and learned friend by referring to something which happened yesterday, but provided there is a Committee stage, and there is in this case, and noble Lords submit Amendments, it is usual for the Government to meet the arguments put forward.
My noble and learned friend has used this opportunity, and I think quite legitimately, in order to exhibit in detail the essential vice of this Bill. I agree with him entirely that the way Ulster has been treated throughout the long history of this question has been deplorable, and by his Amendment he exhibits that this Bill, in its very essence, is a fresh occasion on which you are going to ignore the legitimate option of Ulster. He advanced the argument, and a very cogent argument, that once this House and another place have created a self-governing entity they are bound to have regard to the views and decisions of the democratic bodies they have themselves created. That has become settled constitutional law in our History. The fact that the Government have not consulted Ulster, and have not deferred to Ulster, in this matter only shows the essential vice of the position. Of course, it dates from a much earlier

677
time. Ulster was abominably treated when she was promised to be consulted about the Treaty before her interests were in any way prejudiced. She was not consulted. The noble Lord, of course, is not responsible, but it was a very unfair proceeding and a very unjust proceeding, but when you have created this self-governing body in Ulster you cannot ignore it.
I assented to the Second Reading of the Bill because I thought it was the best course to pursue, but I do not think you have got rid of the difficulties by doing so. You will not arrange your boundary in this way. It was impressed on the House yesterday that nothing is going to solve this question except a voluntary arrangement. That is absolutely true. This voluntary principle, for which the noble and learned Lord pleads perhaps only in an academic form to-day as I understand ho is not going to a Division, will yet assert itself sooner or later. It does not matter what you do, what this Parliament does or what any Parliament does, once you have created this self-governing Constitution in Ulster this voluntary principle will assert itself, and without the assent of the elected representatives in Ulster you will never get a real, true and permanent solution. That has been brought out by this debate, and my noble and learned friend has used this opportunity of doing so.
For the reasons which I gave yesterday I agree that it would be unfortunate if we entered into a conflict with another place on this Bill which would, in effect, defeat it, and I hope that my noble and learned friend will be satisfied with the discussion that has taken place without pressing it to a Division. The noble Lord, the Under-Secretary, would, I think, have been better advised if, instead of referring in a general way to what took place yesterday, he had made an attempt to meet the arguments which have been put forward.
THE MARQUESS OF LONDONDERRY: The noble Lord, in resisting the Amendment, has thought fit to deal with the question in a very perfunctory manner. He seems obsessed with the idea that his duty, and the duty of those whom he represents, is merely to carry on the heritage which has been bequeathed to him by his predecessors. But surely the Govern-
678
ment must have some definite view as to what effect this Bill, which is of course their own Bill, will have on the country; and it is very obvious that in refusing the Amendment the noble Lord has admitted that the Bill is nothing more nor less than a coercive Bill. The Treaty which was negotiated behind closed doors in Downing Street has naturally precluded the rights of Ulster being considered in any way throughout its stages, and we can quite well envisage the conversation between His Majesty's Ministers and the representatives of the Free State to the effect that in no circumstances must Ulster have a word in the mutilation of the territory placed under our charge by the Act of 1920.
It surely is inconceivable, when territory has been consecrated and handed over by Act of Parliament to a community, that such a question can be reopened and rediscussed and portions of that territory transferred to another jurisdiction. Yet the Treaty which the British Government have accepted at the-present moment is to the effect that it is open to the British Government and to the Free State, if a Commission so decides, to transfer portions of the territory of Northern Ireland to Southern Ireland. And the Parliament which you have set up in Northern Ireland is not to be able to say one word in the matter as to whether that territory should be transferred or should not be transferred. The reason that I have taken part in this discussion is to protest against the obvious and implied coercion which exists under this Bill, and I do feel that the time has come when this country should realise that by most of the provisions of the Bill, and especially by the omission of the provision to which the noble and learned Lord has drawn attention, this is naked coercion of a community to whom you have given, or say that you have given, the freedom of managing their own affairs. The noble Earl who sits behind me, Lord Mayo, and who seems eventually to have fallen down on the Sinn Fein side of the fence, if I may use the expression, seems to acquiesce in the coercion of Northern Ireland.
THE EARL OF MAYO: No.
THE MARQUESS OF LONDONDERRY: He is one of the noble Lords who used

679
to appear to be very friendly to Ulster and who asked for our assistance on every possible occasion. We have seen now that when he has an opportunity of doing so he supports the coercion of the community with whom he has appeared to be on friendly terms. I have no doubt that the noble Earl, by his remarks, is qualifying for a seat on the Bench which is opposite me at the present moment, and I sincerely hope that he may achieve the object of his desires, because, when there are so many noble Lords who sit on this side of the House who certainly have the interests of Ulster at heart and have no hesitation in proving their support of the cause which we have endeavoured to put before you, I feel that the noble Earl will be in far better company if he joins those on the other side of the House who are imposing this coercion upon the Province to which I belong.
LORD CARSON: It is perfectly true—if the House will bear with me for one moment—that I put this Amendment upon the Paper in order to emphasise my protest against the coercion of Ulster. It was a perfectly legitimate Amendment, but at the same time, having made the protest, which there has been no attempt to answer and which remains now on the Reports and records of this House absolutely unanswered, that is as far as I am prepared to go. As I stated yesterday, I think that, whatever Government is in power, this Bill, or some Bill like it, would be imposed, or an attempt would be made to impose it, upon Ulster, and, as I certainly do not want to prolong the difficulties of Ulster, I should be sorry to do anything that would destroy the Bill. That being so, I would ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 2 agreed to.
Schedule agreed, to.
LORD ARNOLD: My Lords, I beg to move, That Standing Order No. XXXIX. be considered in order to its being dispensed with.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX. having been suspended), Bill read 3a, and passed.

PRIVATE AND PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS.
Message from the Commons to acquaint this House that they have ordered:
That the promoters of the Private Bills which have been brought from the House of Lords in the present Session of Parliament shall have leave to suspend any further proceeding thereon in order to proceed with the same, if they shall think fit, in the next Session of Parliament, provided that notice of their intention to do so be lodged in the Committee and Private Bill Office not later than one o'clock tomorrow, and that all fees thereon due up to that period be paid:
That every such Bill shall be deposited in the Committee and Private Bill Office not later than three o'clock on or before the third day on which the House shall sit after the next meeting of Parliament, with a declaration annexed thereto, signed by the Agent, stating that the Bill is the same in every respect as the Bill at the last stage of the proceedings thereon in this House in the present Session:
That Bills to confirm any Provisional Order or Certificate introduced into this House, or brought from the House of Lords, in the present Session, shall be suspended from the close of the present Session, in order to be proceeded with in the next Session of Parliament:
That the proceedings on every such Private Bill or Bill to confirm any Provisional Order or Certificate shall be pro forma only in regard to every stage through which the same shall have passed in the present Session, and that no new fees be charged in regard to such stages:
That the Standing Orders by which the proceedings on Bills are regulated shall not apply to any such Bill in regard to any of the stages through which the same shall have passed during the present Session:
That all Petitions presented in the present Session against any such Bills shall stand referred to the Committee on the same Bill in the next Session of Parliament:
The Commons desired the concurrence of their Lordships thereto.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE): My Lords,

681
this is the usual Motion that we always receive, or rather the Motion that is always exchanged between the two Houses, when a General Election is upon us. The Commons have had one advantage over us in that they were able to give Notice of this Motion last night, whereas obviously it was impossible to give such Notice in your Lordships' House. In view of the position that has arisen, I would ask your Lordships to allow me to make a similar Motion in this House without Notice. It is a Motion, I can assure your Lordships, which is in the usual form, and there is ample precedent for it. I have actually looked up two precedents. The same Motion was passed in 1892, and also in 1918. I hope, therefore, that there will be no objection to relaxing our procedure to this extent, in view of the fact, as I understand, that we shall not sit after to-day. I will only add that this matter has been interposed now by the kindness of my noble friend opposite, Lord Ampthill, who proposes to ask a Question, because it is desirable to send the Message down to the Commons without delay in order to have the matter regularised.
THE MARQUESS CURZON OF KEDLESTON: My Lords, the matter may be in usual form, as has been explained with great courtesy by the noble Earl, but it certainly is not in accordance with ordinary procedure that Notice should not be given. Of course, we cannot resist the noble Earl's Motion. It is merely another illustration of the extreme disadvantages of the precipitancy with which His Majesty's Government appear to be acting.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE: In order to regularise the matter, I think it would be better that I should move the whole Motion, in order that it may appear in the proceedings and be within the knowledge of everybody outside the House to-morrow. I understand that my first Motion should be to agree with the Commons in their message.
Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Message.— (The Earl of Donoughmore.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Ordered, that a Message be sent to the Commons acquainting them therewith.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE: My Lords, I how beg to move:
That the promoters of every Private or Provisional Order Confirmation Bill which shall have been introduced into this House in the present Session of Parliament, and which shall have passed this House and been sent to the House of Commons, or which shall be pending in this House, shall have leave to introduce the same in the next Session of Parliament, provided that notice of their intention to do so be lodged in. the Private Bill Office not later than three o'clock on the day after the close of the present Session; and that all fees due thereon, up to that period, be paid:
That an alphabetical list of all such Bills, with a statement of the stages at which they shall have arrived, shall be prepared in the Private Bill Office, and printed:
That such Bills shall be deposited in the Private Bill Office not later than three o'clock on or before the third day on which the House shall sit after the next meeting of Parliament, with a declaration annexed thereto, signed in the case of a Private Bill by the agent, and in the case of a Provisional Order Confirmation Bill by an officer of the Department by which the Orders to be confirmed by such Bill are made, stating that the Bill is the same in every respect as the Bill at the last stage of the proceedings thereon in this House in the present Session, and where any sum of money has been deposited, as required by Standing Order No. 57, that such deposit has not been withdrawn, together with a certificate of that fact, from the proper officer of the court in which such money was deposited:
That the Proceedings on such Bills shall be pro forma only in regard to every stage through which the same shall have passed in the present Session; and that no new fees be charged in regard to such stages:
That as regards all Private and Provisional Order Confirmation Bills which shall have been brought from the House of Commons in the present Session such Bills shall be allowed to proceed to the same stage at which they shall have arrived in the present Session, on the same conditions as those set forth in the preceding Orders in respect of Bills

683
originating in this House; the declaration to be signed as aforesaid, stating that the Bill is in every respect the same as when brought to this House in this Session;
That if any such Bill shall have been amended in this; House in the present Session, the same Amendments shall be inserted by the Committee on the Bill;
That the Standing Orders by which the proceedings on Bills are regulated shall not apply to any Private or Provisional Order Confirmation Bill which shall have originated in this House or been brought up from the House of Commons in the present Session, in regard to any of the stages through which the same shall have passed;
That all Petitions presented in this Session relating to any Private Bill shall, if necessary, be referred to the Committee on the Bill in the next Session:
That no petitioners shall be heard before the Committee on any Bill unless their Petition shall have been presented within the time limited in the present Session, unless that time shall not have expired before it closes, in which case, in order to be heard, their petition shall be presented not later than the fourth day on which the House shall sit in the next Session.
THE MARQUESS CURZON OF KEDLESTON: Is the Motion in the usual form?
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE: There is one word altered. We generally insist that notice shall be given in the office here of the intention of the promoters to avail themselves of this procedure on the day before Parliament dissolves. It is obviously in this case necessary that notice shall be given the day after, because it must be given to-morrow. That is the only difference from the usual form.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

IRISH FREE STATE OBLIGATIONS.
LORD AMPTHILL: My Lords, I beg leave to ask His Majesty's Government whether the Government of the Irish Free State has taken, or is taking, any steps to carry out its obligations under Articles 5 and 8 of the Schedule attached to the Irish Free State (Agreement) Act,
684
1922, and, if not, whether His Majesty's Government propose to take any action to secure the fulfilment of these important obligations?
LORD ARNOLD: My Lords, I would remind the noble Lord that under Article 5 of the Articles of Agreement the amount of the liability to be assumed by the Irish Free State for Debt and War Pensions is to be determined by agreement, or, in default of agreement, by arbitration. No sum has yet been determined in pursuance of the Article, and His Majesty's Government intend to take up the question in due course. As regards Article 8 His Majesty's Government has no reason to believe that the military forces for which provision is made by the Government of the Irish Free State exceed the proportion laid down in that Article.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

ROYAL COMMISSION.
The Royal Assent was given to the following Bill: —
Irish Free State (Confirmation of Agreement).

HIS MAJESTY'S SPEECH.
And afterwards His Majesty's most gracious Speech was delivered to both Houses of Parliament by the Lord Chancellor (in pursuance of His Majesty's Command) as followeth—
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,"My relations with Foreign Powers continue to be of a friendly nature.
"The acceptance of the Dawes Report by the Powers concerned was confirmed by the Conference held in London in July and August, when practical measures required in order to allow of the recommendations being put into force were unanimously approved. This happy result is due to the broadminded spirit of co-operation with which the very difficult problems involved were approached by the Powers concerned. I believe that this settlement will contribute largely to

685
the restoration of international commerce, on which the material prosperity of this country so largely depends.
"Following the close understanding reached between the British and French Delegations at Geneva, the fifth Assembly of the League of Nations by formulating proposals for dealing with the problem of general arbitration and security has made an important advance on the road to the reduction of armaments. The issue of its discussions has been embodied in a protocol which will be laid before Parliament as soon as possible, and which' it is hoped will lead to the first practical measures for lightening the heavy burdens under which the nations are suffering.
"My Government have renewed diplomatic relations with the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics and have concluded with the Government of the Union the two Treaties which have been laid before you. These Treaties have for their object the re-establishment of political and commercial ties between Great Britain and Russia as a necessary element in the general pacification and economic reconstruction of Europe.
"Under the terms of the Treaty the question of the frontier between Turkey and Iraq has been referred to the Council of the League of Nations, who have decided to appoint a special Commission to report to them on the matter. Pending a final settlement both parties have undertaken to maintain the status quo on the frontier.
"I regret that, as explained in a Paper recently laid before you, the informal discussions with the Prime Minister of Egypt did not lead to negotiations which might have resulted in the conclusion of a satisfactory agreement. In the absence of such agreement the position of My Country in relation to Egypt will continue to be governed by the policy adopted when the Protectorate was withdrawn.
"Steps have been taken by My Ministers in conjunction with the Governments of My Dominions for the formation of a Committee to devise means for the more efficient marketing in this country of various articles of food
"Members of the House of Commons,
"I thank you for the provision you have made for the public service.
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
"Though there are, I am glad to say, signs of distinct improvement in some of the principal industries and in certain branches of trade and commerce, severe depression continues. My Ministers have been actively engaged in the development of a constructive policy with a view to stimulating industry and encouraging trade as the only means of dealing fundamentally with the unemployment from which a large proportion of Our fellow-citizens are still suffering. Meanwhile, the measures taken by My Ministers for the provision of increased and continuous unemployment benefit have not only lightened the burden upon the ratepayers in the most necessitous areas, but have also alleviated the sufferings of the innocent victims of industrial depression.
"The measures taken by My Ministers, with the support of Parliament, to enable local authorities and the building industry to engage in a fifteen years' uninterrupted building programme will, I hope, afford an effective remedy for the serious overcrowding which continues to be a source of grievous harm to the character and physique of many hundreds of thousands of My people.
"Steps have also been taken by My Government to assist agriculture by loans to Farmers' Co-operative Societies and by increasing grants-in-aid of agricultural education and research. An Act has also been passed to regulate the wages of agricultural labourers in England and Wales.
"The taking of a new Census of Production, together with various other inquiries which have been set on foot, will, I hope, afford valuable indications of the directions in which the industrial and commercial organisation of the country can be improved.
"The advance of educational development has been freed from the restrictions recently imposed upon it and the lines for further progress have been laid down towards a more universal system of secondary education.
"In bidding you farewell, I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon your labours."
Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
After which the LORD CHANCELLOR said:
MY LORDS, AND MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,—By virtue of His Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in His Majesty's name
688
and in obedience to His Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Friday, the thirty-first day of October, One thousand nine hundred and twenty-four, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Friday, the thirty-first day of October, One thousand nine hundred and twenty-four.
End of the Session of the Thirty-third Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, in the fifteenth year of the Reign of His Majesty King George V.