ELECTRICITY SPECIAL ORDERS. (Hansard, 4 March 1924)

§ LORD MUIR MACKENZIE
My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in my name to approve of certain Special Orders made under the Electricity (Supply) Acts. When I moved, two or three days ago, a similar Resolution, I think there was a little misunderstanding as to what it is 527 exactly that takes place when provision is made for a confirmatory Resolution to be passed in this House with reference to an Electricity Order, and indeed to some other classes of Orders. It does not seem to have been appreciated in the House that in the first instance, in the case of these Orders, there appears a note in the Minutes when the Orders are first laid upon the Table, and that the Orders are obtainable in the Printed Paper Office of this House for a considerable time before a Motion is put down and the House signifies its approval.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Buckmaster, who has left the House but from whom I understood that he was going to raise the Question to-day, has probably, after some conversation which I had with him, seen that the case is by no means so bad as it appeared to be when it was discussed the other night. I hope, therefore, that- no objection will be raised to the Motion being carried as it appears on the Paper. There is, however, one qualification. I think it would have been right, upon the Motion before the House, to have stated the dates when the Orders were placed upon the Table, so that the House might know that all that could be reasonably required had duly been done; and in future cases, if I have anything to do with the matter, upon moving a Motion of this kind I shall include a mention of the date when the Order was laid upon the Table.

§ VISCOUNT NOVAR
My Lords, I do not propose to go, as did my noble friend Lord Buckmaster the other night, into the policy which was adopted under the Electricity Act, 1919, in regard to electricity supply, and I have only to say that I have considerable sympathy with those very distinguished men who opposed the whole policy of the Act. In the last conversation which I had with Lord Moulton upon this very subject, I remarked that the provisions of the Act would want some watching and control. Lord Moulton stated that it was not nationalisation of electricity that would be achieved, but bureaucratic control in its worst form, and this is exactly what we have seen. I have no doubt that the procedure recommended by Lord Buck master might prove to be cumbersome, but at the same time it would, I think, give great satisfaction in the country, because in many cases proposals by private individuals, industrialists and local authorities have been held up, and the development of industry has been retarded.
I have come across many cases of that kind, some of them even of comparatively recent date and there would. I think, be more confidence among local authorities and industrialists in the working of these Acts if it were known that Ministers were able to explain in either House of Parliament the decisions arrived at by the Electricity Commissioners, because the fear is—and I think it is not altogether unfounded that there is no Minister at the Board of Trade or the Ministry of Transport who is able to give information upon the Orders in either House. That, I think, is necessary if full confidence in the working of these Acts is to be obtained.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
My Lords, I will only say. upon the point which my noble friend has raised, that the opinion of Lord Moulton which he quoted, and which I remember very well, was expressed in this House in opposition to the general principles of the Acts of 1919 and 1921. Lord Moulton said that 530 these things had been very much better done by private enterprise. That which carried the House against Lord Moulton was the truth, which was pointed out, as to what private enterprise had really done. Prices of 5d., 6d., and 7d. per unit of electricity had been charged by private concerns, when it had been furnished elsewhere for ½d. and 1d. Private enterprise had been ruining the chance of obtaining cheap electrical motive power in this country.
These schemes are highly detailed, involving relations of various local authorities, great electrical power companies, and so on. The scheme of the Act is not nationalisation but co-ordination of the interests of these various local undertakings, and the close watching of the scale of charges which they make. The scheme has so far gone very smoothly. There has been one controversy in connection with London, but I understand that this controversy is now on its way to a settlement. My noble friend will be able to obtain abundant information about these Orders it he will go to the Vote Office and obtain the Reports for last year.