HL Deb 03 June 1924 vol 57 cc840-4
VISCOUNT PEEL

My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government whether the Indian Legislative Assembly will be afforded an opportunity of discussing the recommendations of Viscount Lee of Fareham's Commission on the Indian Services during the present short Session, in view of the fact that no further sittings of that Assembly will be held until the month of September.

I can deal with this Question, though it is important in substance, very shortly, but I must in two or three sentences explain the reason why I put it down. On the occasion of the setting up of this Commission, I made a statement in the nature of a pledge as to the opportunity that might be afforded the Legislative Assembly in India to discuss this Report. It was a carefully guarded statement, and I think I ought perhaps to read to your Lordships the actual statement as it was made by the Home Member, Sir Malcolm Hailey, in the Legislative Assembly. He was speaking, I think, in March of this year, and he repeated a statement which he made in July. He said: In July last I said: 'We cannot here, either as an Assembly or as a Government of India, limit the constitutional and statutory powers of the Secretary of State in this respect, and, if there are matters pressed upon him by the Royal Commission which require immediate orders, then it will be necessary to recognise his power to take a decision in advance of any discussion by the Assembly. For the rest, we shall be quite prepared to allow the Assembly an opportunity of discussing the main recommendations of the Royal Commission; we shall meet any views it may advance in discussion in the usual way, and shall forward its recommendations to the Secretary of State.' That is the quotation which. Sir Malcolm Hailey gave from his own statement.

He went on to say: That was a formal declaration made in recognition of the constitutional powers of the Secretary of State. We cannot tie his hands, but I have no doubt that he will endeavour to allow full discussion here before any action is taken on the main recommendations of the Commission. As the noble Lord, the Secretary of State for India, well knows, the Assembly is at present sitting, but the Session is, I understand, likely to be a short one. No other Session is likely to be called or take place until September, and I am anxious that the proposals made by Viscount Lee of Fareham and his Commission should, if possible, be discussed during the present Session.

I will tell your Lordships why. It is obvious, after the great despatch with which Lord Lee and his colleagues have discharged their very difficult and complicated duties, that it would be very unfair to expect the Secretary of State to wait, before taking decisions upon the Report of that Commission, until September, when the Assembly may have had its discussions. It would also, if I may say so, be very unfortunate for the Services concerned, because, whatever the decisions taken by the Secretary of State on this proposal, it is obvious that they should, in the interest of the Services, be taken as soon as possible, in order that the Services may know exactly where they stand. I was going to ask the noble Lord if the Government of India would not only place no obstacle in the way of, but do what they can to facilitate, a discussion on the Report of Lord Lee's Commission taking place this Session. I should imagine that this would also be to some extent in their own interests, because any representations they may make upon it are likely to carry more weight when the Secretary of State is beginning to deal with those changes than when, in September perhaps, he has already made up his mind and may have passed orders carrying out a great many decisions. I beg, therefore, to ask him that specific Question.

LORD OLIVIER

My Lords, it may be of interest to the noble Viscount if I read the text of the announcement which was made on behalf of the Government in both Houses of the Indian Legislature on May 28. It ran as follows:— The Report of the Royal Commission on the Superior Services in India is now in the hands of hon. members. When they have had an opportunity of perusing it, they will no doubt observe that the recommendations of the Commission are unanimous in all the main points. They cover a wide held, including Indianisation of the Services, the establishment of a Public Service Commission, the control by Ministers of the Services, which the Report recommends should be recruited provincially in the future, and the remedy of the grievances of the Services. I should point out to the House that the Report is of an urgent character, that its main recommendations are inter-dependent and that this inter-dependence was the basis of its unanimity. The House has already been assured that the Government propose to give an opportunity to the hon. members of expressing their views, but they will no doubt understand that neither the Government of India nor the Secretary of State can suspend the consideration of the Report in the mean while. However, if, after the hon. members have had an opportunity of examining the Report, there is any strong feeling in the House in favour of a discussion during the current Session, the Government will be glad to give an opportunity for this, and will consider what arrangements could be made— that is, in the current Session, the May Session— although, of course, it will not be possible for them to express their definite views at such short notice. The hon. members will understand that the Provincial Governments are vitally interested in many of the recommendations, and their views must be obtained. While the Government are anxious to obtain the general views of the Assembly at the earliest possible date, it may be necessary for the Secretary of State to take decision on matters of urgency, and, in this connection, I must refer the House to what my predecessor said in July, 1923, and again in March, 1924. We cannot here, either as an Assembly or as a Government of India, limit the constitutional and statutory powers of the Secretary of State in this respect, and if there are matters pressed upon him by the Royal Commission which require immediate orders, then it will be necessary to recognise his power to take a decision in advance of any discussion by the Assembly. For the rest, we shall be quite prepared to allow the Assembly an oppor- tunity of discussing the main recommendations of the Royal Commission. We shall meet any views it may advance in discussion in the usual way and shall forward its recommendations to the Secretary of State. I take this opportunity of announcing that the Secretary of State and the Government of India are of opinion that whatever measures of relief recommended by the Commission may be finally sanctioned should have effect as recommended by the Commission from April 1, 1924. I hope very much that the Viceroy may find it possible to dispose of the discussion of this Report in the Assembly which is now being held, and I have already pressed upon the Viceroy, as strongly as I can, my sense, and that of my Council, of the urgency of dealing with the matter as quickly as possible, in view of the considerations to which the Viceroy himself has called attention. I have no doubt whatever that Lord Reading will do all he can to secure the earliest possible expression in a sufficient manner of the views of the Assembly. He knows the feeling of His Majesty's Government upon the subject, and he will, subject to the obstacles standing in his way, be disposed to press forward the matter as quickly as possible.

THE MARQUESS CURZON OF KEDLESTON

My Lords, I will only say in a sentence that those who sit on this Bench have listened with satisfaction to the remarks which have just fallen from the Secretary of State for India. I am glad to learn that not only are the Viceroy and the Government of India anxious to take this matter at once in India, but that those views are shared by the Secretary of State himself. It is obviously extremely desirable that the matter should be taken in hand without delay, both because of the nature of the Deport and the great disadvantage of letting the matter stand over till September, and also because, as the noble Lord pointed out, there may be matters upon which the Government of India think it necessary to act without any delay at all. If so, how desirable it is that any discussion should take place soon. Further, in view of the labours of the Commission, of which Lord Lee of Fareham was Chairman, and the urgent recommendations that the Report should be considered as a whole, that it should be treated and if possible accepted as a whole, and that the changes proposed should be initiated with as little delay as possible, it is only fair to my noble friend and his colleagues that so far as His Majesty's Government can influence that course of affairs they shall do so. Therefore, we are gratified to learn that the Secretary of State for India will exert the whole of his influence in that direction.

[From Minutes of May 29.]