HL Deb 07 July 1924 vol 58 cc274-8

LORD BANBURY OF SOUTHAM had given Notice to ask His Majesty's Government whether they have any further information as to the probability of the arrest and trial of the murderers of His Majesty's soldiers at Queenstown some three months ago: and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: My Lords, it was four months ago that these murders took place, and it was 60 long ago as April 10 that I asked His Majesty's Government if they had any information as to the probability of the arrest and trial of the murderers. On that date the noble Lord, Lord Arnold, replied as follows:— I am able to say that the Government of the Irish Free State are by no means without hope that, sooner or later, they will be able to bring the criminals, or some of them, to justice.

That was practically three months ago—it will be exactly three months ago on Thursday—and, so far as I know, nothing whatever has been done.

It is absurd to say that, when a party of His Majesty's soldiers land at a friendly port in the middle of the day and are fired at by four men in a motor-car with a machine gun, the people round about the district do not know who those people are and where they are to be found. I admit that in Ireland under all Governments there has been, at times, very considerable difficulty in arresting criminals, but that is because the population have sided with the criminals. It is not to be supposed, I should hope, that the population at present side with the murderers of His Majesty's Forces in cold blood in that manner. I would point out to the noble Lord that, if my information is correct, at the present time the Army of the Irish Free State is very nearly four times the size that it ought to have been under the Treaty, and, with an enormous Army like that, it is surprising that they have been unable to arrest the murderers of these unfortunate men.

At this late hour I do not want to detain your Lordships beyond saying that I have waited three months since I last put this Question in the hope that the Irish Free State would be able to do something. If before another three months have elapsed, they have done nothing, I hope His Majesty's Government will follow the example of Italy, when they had a servant murdered a short time ago by the Greeks, and will take some decisive step to show the people of the Free State that they must arrest these murderers.

LORD ARNOLD

My Lords, I regret that there is very little which I am able to add to the reply which I gave to the noble Lord when he addressed a similar Question to His Majesty's Government in this House on April 10 last. As your Lordships are no doubt aware, the Free State Government have since that date found themselves able to issue a Proclamation giving the names and descriptions of five persons whom they believe to have been guilty of this outrage and repeating their offer of a reward of £10,000 for information leading to the arrest of these persons; but, unfortunately, neither this offer nor the efforts which have been made by the Free State police have resulted in the arrest of any of the suspected persons.

I believe that those of your Lordships who are acquainted with the conditions obtaining, even in normal times, in the mountainous districts of Ireland, where the inhabitants have always been unwilling, whatever the crime, to give any assistance whatsoever to the police, will not be surprised that the capture of the guilty persons should have been so long delayed. I may say, having regard to previous experience in these matters, that there is no reason to suppose that had the British Government, with all the resources available to them, still been responsible for the preservation of law and order in that area, they would have been any more successful. Nevertheless, His Majesty's Government hope, and, as I will indicate before I sit down, this hope is shared by the Government of the Irish Free State, that even though further months may yet elapse, the assassins will eventually be brought to justice.

The noble Lord has asked that the correspondence which has passed between His Majesty's Government and the Government of the Irish Free State on this matter may be laid before the House. The letters which have passed between the Prime Minister and the President of the Executive Council on the subject of the steps taken for the arrest of the murderers, and of the compensation to be paid to the victims, have already been given wide publicity. Since then the only correspondence Which has passed between the two Governments has been a Despatch from the Free State Government forwarding a copy of the letter addressed by them to the Wood-Renton Commission asking that Commission to assess the compensation to be paid by the Free State Government to the victims, and a letter from the High Commissioner forwarding a copy of the Proclamation to which I have already alluded; but my right hon. friend has not failed to keep in touch with the High Commissioner, who, for his part, has at all times shown himself anxious to obtain and supply all available information.

His Majesty's Government has not the smallest reason to believe that the Government of the Irish Free State is failing in its duty to take all possible steps to capture and bring to justice the persons responsible for this outrage; and in this connection I would refer your Lordships to the debate which took place in the Dail as recently as Thursday last, when, on the Vote for the Civic Guard, questions as to the failure to arrest the murderers were addressed to the Free State Government by members of all Parties. In his reply, Mr. O'Higgins, the Minister for Home Affairs, after saying it was a national disgrace that such a crime should have occurred and a very keen national disappointment that up to the present the desired arrests had not been made, expressed his firm conviction that the culprits would ultimately be arrested and brought to trial, but stated that he, of course, could not indicate publicly what steps had been and were being taken in the matter.

Before I sit down, your Lordships will no doubt wish to be informed how the question of compensation stands. The Wood-Renton Commission have already dealt with the cases of the man who was murdered and of some of the men who suffered minor injuries, and the compensation awarded in these cases has been paid by the Free State Government. In the case of the men who were seriously injured, however, the Commission have taken the view, with which His Majesty's Government agree, that it will be to the interest of the men themselves to postpone consideration of their cases until they are convalescent, so that the extent of the permanent injuries which the men have suffered may be known: and these cases, therefore, will be dealt with as and when the men are discharged from hospital. If, in the meantime, any question of hardship arises, the Irish Grants Committee are always ready to consider sympathetically applications for advances on account of compensation, and some such advances have, in fact, been made by the Committee.