HL Deb 05 August 1924 vol 59 cc350-6

Order of the Day read for receiving the Report of Amendments.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT HALDANE):

My Lords, in rising to move that this Report be now received it may be convenient to the House if I say a few preliminary words before we proceed to consideration of the further detailed Amendments. I have done my very best to bring about harmony between the two Houses and, though there are certain points upon which there is difference of opinion, I shall be in a position to accept the Amendments which are upon the Paper with the exception of the first, the amendment to Clause 2 which stands in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Strachie, as to which I shall have something to say when the Amendment is moved.

Moved, That the Report of Amendments be now received.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Clause 2:

Increased Government contributions in case of houses which are subject to special conditions.

(2) For the purposes of this Act, a house shall be deemed to be situated in an agricultural parish if at the beginning of the financial year in which the proposal for the provision of the house is approved by the Minister—

(5) Where, in pursuance of proposals approved by the Minister under this Act, houses are provided by a metropolitan borough council, the London County Council may, in respect of any such house which is subject to special conditions, supplement any contribution made by the Minister in respect of such house to an extent not exceeding two pounds five shillings, payable annually for a period not exceeding forty years, and for the purposes of paragraph (e) of subsection (1) of Section three of this Act the amount of any such supplemental contribution shall be treated as if it were part of the expenses borne by the local rate in the borough.

LORD STRACHIE

moved, in paragraph (a) of subsection (2), after " parish," where that word secondly occurs, to insert "excluding railways." The noble Lord said: My Lords, I wish to draw attention to the fact that if you do not exclude railways the effect in some small agricultural parishes would be that they would not get the extra subsidy which is provided under the Bill for building houses. I will give one instance, that of Easenhall, a small agricultural parish with a rateable value on agricultural land of £957, railway rateable value, £3,552, and on other property of £900. That makes a total of £5,409, out of which agricultural land accounts for only £957. I imagined that the question was one to which the noble and learned Viscount would object on the ground of privilege, and I should not have raised it but for the fact that I had been asked by members of the House of Commons to mention it.

Amendment moved—

Page 3, line 33, after (" parish ") insert ("excluding railways").—(Lord Strachie.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR:

My Lords, this Amendment gives rise to considerable difficulties, administrative as well as legal. The county basis which is the foundation of the procedure, makes no provision for excluding railways. One reason is this: If you exclude railways, why not canals and other things? The truth is that the whole matter is changed by the Agricultural Rates Act of 1923. What is done there is to divide the county basis, as it is called, into two parts, one relating to agricultural and the other to non-agricultural matters. To take out the railways would involve a calculation for which there is no machinery, and it is plain that waterworks, canals and other activities should be on the same basis. I am, therefore, advised that the Amendment is not practicable, and I ask my noble friend not to press it.

THE EARL OF ANCASTER:

My Lords, I understand that in the case of Scotland, in certain Scottish rural parishes, where the rateable value is largely increased by railways, waterworks or similar undertakings, they will receive the extra grant.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR:

I forgot that, and I am obliged to the noble Earl for reminding me. We have, in fact, disposed of this question by what we did on the Scottish clause.

LORD STRACHIE:

I ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

LORD BANBURY OF SOUTHAM

moved, in subsection (5), to insert " the Common Council of the City of London or by " after " a metropolitan borough council." The noble Lord said: My Lords, as I am told that the noble and learned Viscount is going to accept this Amendment, I content myself with moving it and with congratulating the Lord Chancellor upon doing the right thing.

Amendment moved—

Page 4, line 21, after (" by ") insert (" the Common Council of the City of London or by ").—(Lord Banbury of Southam.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved—

Page 4, line 31, after the third (" the ") insert (" City or ").— (Lord Banbury of Southam.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 3:

Special conditions.

3.— (1) Houses provided by a local authority themselves shall be deemed to be subject to special conditions if the local authority undertake, in accordance with rules made by the Minister and approved by the- Treasury, that the following conditions will be complied with in relation to the houses: —

(a) that, subject to the following conditions, the houses shall be let by the local authority for occupation to tenants who intend to reside therein;

(c) that if the local authority desire to sell or (save by such lettings as aforesaid) otherwise dispose of the houses the sale or disposal shall not be effected except upon and subject to such reasonable stipulations as the Minister thinks proper, including, if the Minister thinks fit, stipulations for the reduction of the amount or the curtailment of the duration of any contribution payable by the Minister in respect of the house, or for both reduction and curtailment, but so nevertheless that the contribution in respect of any house sold before the expiration of a period of twenty years from the date when that contribution first became payable shall not be reduced by more than three pounds or, in the case of a house in an agricultural parish, by more than six pounds ten shillings, and the duration thereof shall not be curtailed by more than twenty years;

(2) Houses provided by a society, body of trustees or company within the meaning of Section three of the Housing, etc., Act, 1923, and houses, the construction of which is promoted by a local authority in accordance with Section two of the said Act, as amended by this Act, shall be deemed to be subject to special conditions if the society, body of trustees or company, in the case of the houses provided by them, and the local authority in the case of the other houses undertake, in accordance with rules made by the Minister and approved by the Treasury, that the following conditions will be complied with in relation to the houses—

(a) that the houses shall be let for occupation to tenants who intend to reside therein;

(c) that no house shall be sold or (save by such lettings as aforesaid) otherwise disposed of except with the consent of the Minister, which may be absolute or subject to such stipulations as the Minister thinks proper, Including, if the Minister thinks fit, stipulations for the reduction of the amount or the curtailment of the duration of any contribution payable by the Minister in respect of the house, or for both redaction and curtailment, but so nevertheless that the contribution in respect of any house sold before the expiration of a period of twenty years from the date when that contribution first became payable shall not be reduced by more than three pounds, or in the case of a house in an agricultural parish by more than six pounds ten shillings, and the duration thereof shall not be curtaailed by more than twenty years;

LORD STRACHIE

moved in subsection (1) (a), after " tenants," to insert " who are members of the working classes, and." The noble Lord said: My Lords, this is a similar Amendment to that which I moved yesterday when I was told that it was not in the proper place.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY:

I understand that the noble and learned Viscount will accept this Amendment?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR:

Yes.

LORD STRACHIE:

Then it does not require very much argument from me. This Bill is intended for the benefit of the working classes, and my Amendment is designed to secure that its advantages shall not be shared by those for whom it is not intended. I do not think that these houses should be let as week-end properties, or to sanitary inspectors or other people -whom this Bill is not intended to benefit. I want to limit its advantages to the working classes.

Amendment moved—

Page 4, line 41, after ("tenants ") insert (" who are members of the working classes, and ").—(Lord Strachie.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR:

My Lords, I am very glad to accept the Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE EARL OF ONSLOW:

My Lords, I have three Amendments on the Paper to which I understand the Lord Chancellor is prepared to agree.

Amendments moved—

Page 5, line 14, leave out (" reasonable ")

Page 5, line 15, after (" stipulations ") insert (" if any ")

Page 5, line 16, leave out (" including if the Minister thinks fit, stipulations ").— (The Earl of Onslow.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD STRACHIE

moved, in paragraph (a) of subsection (2), after " tenants," to insert " who are members of the working classes, and." The noble Lord said: My Lords, this Amendment is similar to that which has already been accepted. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 6, line 24, after (" tenants ") insert (" who are members of the working classes, and ").—(Lord Strachie.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE EARL OF ONSLOW:

My Lords, I understand that the Lord Chancellor accepts the remaining Amendment to this clause, which stands in my name, and I therefore beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 6, line 41, after (" such ") insert (" reasonable ").—(The Earl of Onslow.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 14:

Agreements between London County Council and metropolitan borough councils.

14.—(1) The London County Council and any metropolitan borough council may enter into agreements by which the metropolitan borough council may contribute such amounts as may be agreed, subject to the provisions of this Act, towards the provision of houses by the county council within or without the county to meet any special needs of any such metropolitan borough council, and for the purposes of paragraph (e) of subsection (1) of section three of this Act the amount of any such contribution shall be treated as if it were part of the expenses borne by the county rate.

LORD BANBURY OF SOUTHAM:

My Lords, I beg to move three consequential Amendments to this clause.

Amendments moved—

Page 12, line 18, after ("and") insert (" the Common Council or ")

Page 12, line 20, after ("the") insert (" Common Council or the ")

Page 12, line 24, after (" of ") insert (" the Common Council or ").—(Lord Banbury of Southam.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended, Bill read 3a, and passed, and returned to the Commons.