§ Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
§ EARL DE LA WARRMy Lords, your Lordships will find this small Bill a very simple matter. As the law at present stands it is impossible to alter the number of borough councillors except by Act of Parliament, or by a Provisional 206 Order confirmed by Parliament. This Bill proposes to put the matter on the same basis as that of wards of boroughs. That is to say, the number of borough councillors could, under this Bill, be altered by an Order in Council in the case of municipal boroughs and by an Order of the Secretary of State in the case of Metropolitan boroughs. If this Bill is passed it will bring in its train a considerable measure of economy in time and money. A similar Bill was introduced late last Session in this House with a view of ascertaining public opinion on the matter, and full agreement has been obtained from the County Councils Association, the Association of Municipal Corporations and the Metropolitan Boroughs Standing Joint Committee. I think, therefore, that your Lordships may take it that this Bill has a very large measure of local approval behind it, and I beg to move that it be now read a second time.
§ Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a—(Earl De La Warr.)
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, I beg to congratulate the noble Earl upon bringing in a Bill which, I think I am right in saying, was inherited in toto from the previous Government. I am very glad indeed that our example has proved to be one which he is so ready to follow. As regards the question of general agreement with the County Councils Association and the Association of Municipal Corporations, I am very glad that this has been obtained, because, as your Lordships are aware, some two years ago a moratorium was declared in regard to the extension of county boroughs pending the Report of the Royal Commission. As regards the extension of urban districts, I believe the County Councils are considering whether it would not be desirable at any rate to restrict those extensions as far as possible pending the same Report. As this Bill facilitates the rearrangement, of borough wards and the distribution of councillors, it does, of course, touch to a certain extent upon the definition of areas, and it is most important, therefore, that the assent of the associations concerned should have been obtained, and that complete publicity should be given to that fact. I hope that the Hill will pass through this House and that facilities will be given to it in another place.
§ VISCOUNT PEELMy Lords, as my noble friend Lord Onslow tells me that this Bill was introduced by the late Government, I am convinced that it must be a very good Bill, and I have only one observation to make upon it. That is, that I want to make it even more perfect than it was. There is, to my mind, one slight defect in the Bill, and I should like to give notice to the Government that I desire to move an Amendment on this point when the Committee stage is reached. My sole quarrel with the Bill is that it sets up what I might call an invidious distinction between the procedure to be employed in the case of boroughs outside London and that which applies to the great Metropolitan boroughs. I understand that in the case of boroughs outside London the movement for the increase in the number of borough councillors is to come from the borough council itself through a petition from the borough council concerned, and that then an Order in Council is to be made. In the case of Metropolitan boroughs a different procedure is followed. In their ease I understand that the Secretary of State may himself make an Order altering the membership whenever he is satisfied that a prima facie case is made out for such a proposal.
I submit to your Lordships that there is no reason whatever for differentiating between the procedure in regard to borough councils outside London and that which applies to the great Metropolitan boroughs. I think that in the case of the Metropolitan boroughs the movement ought to come from the borough council itself just as is proposed in the case of borough councils in the rest of the country. I need hardly call your Lordships' attention to the fact that many of these Metropolitan boroughs have a very large population, sometimes numbering 200,000, 300,000 and 400,000 people, and I hope that the devotion of noble Lords opposite to democratic principles will induce them at least to allow the initiative to come from the elected representatives of the people and not merely from a bureaucratic official who happens to represent the Government in a particular office. I beg to give notice, therefore, of my intention to move a suitable Amendment to carry out this proposal at a later stage.
§ EARL DE LA WARRThis is not the time to discuss that matter, but I should like to thank the noble Viscount, Lord Peel, for giving the Government this ample warning.
§ On Question, Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.