§ EARL BEAUCHAMPMy Lords, I desire to ask His Majesty's Government if they can give a Return showing the total burden of taxation which is now being borne by the chief countries of the world, and also the amount per head. I shall not keep your Lordships more than a minute or two in putting this Question. First of all, we are all anxious to hear the noble Earl, Lord Balfour, who has a Notice on the Paper, and, in the second place, I do not think that there exists at the present time sufficient material for debate on this subject. It is not unlikely that if His Majesty's Government are able to give us fuller particulars than exist at present an interesting debate may very well be raised in your Lordships' House. A short time ago the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in another place, gave a few figures, but they were not sufficient to enable a really valuable discussion to take place. I fully realise the difficulty of supplying figures, and I shall be very grateful if His Majesty's Government are able to promise us anything which may contribute towards an intelligent discussion of the subject.
Let me, in as many sentences, briefly mention three questions. It is obviously impossible to compare the burdens of taxation laid upon the people of this country with the burdens laid upon people in other countries unless you also take into consideration questions of local rates and local burdens. Then again there is an even more difficult question still—whether the Taxes imposed are actually paid by the people of the country which imposes them. We frequently see in the newspapers that, although the Budget of such and such a country 336 imposes very heavy taxation, the people of the country do not pay that taxation. The third subject, and the last point I shall raise, is the very difficult question of the rates of exchange. The extraordinary changes which have been taking place in the rate of exchange of so many countries of Europe must obviously make a great deal of difference. Without full information upon all these and, I am afraid I must say, upon other subjects as well, it is very difficult to be sure that one is comparing like with like. Any information which His Majesty's Government can give us on the subject I shall receive, I can assure the noble Marquess in advance, with gratitude.
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY)My Lords, the noble Earl has touched upon a subject of very great importance, but I am sure your Lordships must be conscious that he has not minimised the difficulty of replying to the Question. He has indicated to your Lordships that anything like a complete conspectus of this subject would take us into regions very remote and of vast extent, and in pointing this out the noble Earl has stated nothing but the truth. That, indeed, is the great difficulty. The noble Earl referred to Questions which have been put and answered in the House of Commons. Two of them were put in February this year. The noble Earl said, I think most rightly, that they do not lead us very far. My right honourable Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in making those answers, himself stated that he did not think that the figures which he gave led to any very useful result.
The difficulties are very great. The noble Earl has touched upon several of them, and I am not going to detain your Lordships by going into them, but anything we can do to meet the noble Earl we will do, and I am going to make a suggestion before I sit down. As I have said, the difficulties are very great. There is difficulty, first of all, in the division between what we know as Imperial and local taxation. We understand it so far as it applies to our own country, but for the purposes of the noble Earl we should have to understand it similarly as it applies to other countries. There the division is not the same as in our country. In the United States, for 337 instance, there are not only Federal Taxes, but State Taxes, and State Taxes do not exactly correspond with local taxation. There is local taxation yet beyond that which has to be taken into account. Then take the subject of indirect taxation. That must, of course, come in, and it is rather difficult to calculate the incidence of indirect taxation, even in our own country, but when you have to deal with industrial monopolies as they exist in other countries, how are you to appreciate the burdens upon individuals? The Tax does not all fall upon individuals, and you have to arrive at some net value, and, indeed, the complication is very great.
Then there is the point which the noble Earl touched upon—namely, currency difficulties, which at the present moment are extremely formidable. You can, in imagination, apply your minds to the task of arriving at any reliable result in the ease of Germany, with the mark wandering up and down through hundreds of thousands. The task has been to some extent attempted, and by no less an authority than the League of Nations, who are collecting statistics on the subject. They publish a very useful return, although not, I think, a very conclusive one, with regard to the taxation of different countries for the year 1921. Three or four weeks hence we expect a new edition to be published, dealing with the year 1922, and what I would venture to suggest to the noble Earl is that he will allow me to submit to him a copy of the return as issued by the League of Nations, either the one existing in 1921 or the one about to exist for the year 1922. When he has perused that—and it will take him a little time—if he will be good enough to confer with me on the subject, in order to inform the mind of the Government with regard to what he thinks can be added to the return, if it is in our power we will of course do it.
§ EARL BEAUCHAMPI thank the noble Marquess.