HL Deb 19 June 1923 vol 54 cc531-4

Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.

THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (VISCOUNT NOVAR)

My Lords, the short Bill which I now submit to you for Second Reading contains a few clauses which were originally put forward in the Economy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, introduced in another place last year but not proceeded with. It was thought desirable that the educational provisions of that Bill should be dealt with this year separately. But, as some of them are of a controversial character and the pressure on the time of Parliament has become so great, we have decided to ask approval simply for the one or two clauses which are not regarded as contentious, and which, at the same time, will make for the more economical administration of the Education (Scotland) Act, 1918.

Clause 1 contains a provision which a short experience of the Act of 1918 shows to be desirable. The Act of 1918 places the management of voluntary schools entirely under the education authorities, subject to certain safeguards for the maintenance of the religious instruction previously given in those schools. There was a fear lest, in the case of authorities which require to be elected every three years, a policy accepted by the first authority might be liable to be changed. Accordingly, the Act provided that any school transferred should be carried on under the conditions of transference for a period of ten years, after which the education authority would be free to consider whether the safeguards were required or not. The former managers of these schools are, in certain cases, not anxious to continue them. There is no proposal, however, to interfere with the arrangement come to under the Act of 1918 without the full consent of the former managers. Apart from that consent, neither the education authority nor the Department can take any action; but with that consent a saving in certain quarters can be effected.

Clause 2 is one under which considerable economy is expected. When the Act of 1918 was passed, provision was made for the education authorities to meet every month, with the exception that they were not required to hold more than one meeting between the end of June and the beginning of October. Until the new system got into working order this provision had, no doubt, a good deal to commend it, but a number of the authorities have represented that less frequent meetings would be sufficient in the present circumstances. We propose, therefore, to reduce the number of statutory meetings in a year to four, leaving the education authorities to meet more frequently at their own discretion. In this we are acting somewhat in the same way as in regard to county councils, for whom only three meetings annually are obligatory. Under each education authority a large part of the ordinary administration of the schools is carried on by local school management committees. In some of the counties, such as Argyllshire and Inverness-shire and Ross-shire, the expense of meetings is very considerable, looking to the fact that the Act provides for the payment of travelling expenses, subsistence allowances, and, in certain cases, compensation for loss of time. The Association of Education Authorities is in full sympathy with this proposal.

Clause 3 is somewhat more technical, and is rather in the nature of a drafting amendment of certain sections of the Acts of 1908 and 1918. Before 1918 an educational authority could provide for mentally or physically defective children certified as incapable of receiving proper benefit in ordinary schools. In the cities, however, certain children were dealt with by special arrangements, such as open-air schools, even when the children could attend an ordinary school. In order to admit of the payment of travelling expenses in the case of these children an amendment of one of the sections of the Act of 1908 was required, and this was embodied in the Act of 1918. Experience has shown that this went beyond what was asked for or intended, and Clause 3 of this Bill is intended to prevent abuse. It will give all that the authorities who are dealing with this class of child require.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Viscount Novar.)

VISCOUNT HALDANE

My Lords, I have looked into this Bill, and I think it is a useful one. Perhaps it is tinged a little with the spirit of economy in education; otherwise, however, it is not only unobjectionable but useful in its provisions. The taking over of the voluntary schools which are pronounced to be no longer required is a power which the education authorities already have, within the ten years which were the limit, but only with the assent of the trustees of the schools which were taken over. That is quite right. As regards the meetings of the education authorities, there is no doubt that it is very difficult in Highland counties, such as-Inverness and further North, to secure a meeting of an authority of that kind without spending a great deal of money. In the days of plenty, in the days when nobody considered for a moment what expenditure he was authorising, these people were enabled to charge the expense of travelling to the meetings and of maintenance at the place of meeting on a very liberal scale. If meetings are held now they cost the public a great deal of money. It is right to diminish the number of obligatory meetings. We do not want many of them, and when they take place they can be held for an extra day, so that the business can be transacted with a minimum number of meetings. The provisions for epileptics are quite adequate. I think the noble Lord is to be congratulated on having brought in a useful Bill.

On Question, Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.