Lords Sitting of 30 May 1922

Preamble
The House met at a quarter past four of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
THE EARL OF BALFOUR.
The Right Hon. Sir Arthur James Balfour, K.G., O.M., F.R.S., Lord President of the Privy Council, having been created the Earl of BALFOUR and Viscount Traprain of Whittinghame in the County of Haddington—Was (in the usual manner) introduced.

CELLULOID AND CINEMATOGRAPH FILM BILL. [H.L.]
THE EARL OF ONSLOW: My Lords, I beg leave to introduce a Bill entitled the Celluloid and Cinematograph Film Bill, and to move that it be now read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1a(The Earl of Onslow.)
On Question, Bill read 1a, and to be printed.

HOUSE OF LORDS REFORM.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, I beg to ask the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack a Question of which I have given him private notice—namely, whether he is able to give the House any information as to the date on which it is proposed to introduce the Resolutions on the reform of the House of Lords.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT BIRKENHEAD): My Lords, I thank the noble Marquess for having given me notice. The Resolutions to which he refers will, naturally and properly, be moved in this House by the noble Marquess who leads it. Your Lordships are aware that the state of his health in the past few weeks has been such as to give anxiety to all of us, and I am not able to say at this moment when he will be sufficiently restored to undertake a Parliamentary task of this importance. I think the general sense of your Lordships would be that if there is any reasonable hope of his being able to undertake this duty in the comparatively near future, it would be better that we should postpone

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the introduction of the Resolutions for a week or fortnight in order to have the advantage of his presentation of them. It is our hope that that advantage will not be delayed later than the last week in June or the first week in July. The noble Marquess will observe that I speak a little guardedly. We live in days when it is difficult to make predictions too confidently, but I think I have reasonable grounds for saying this.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

  SITUATION IN IRELAND.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: My Lords, with reference to the debate on Ireland, I desire to ask the Lord Chancellor whether the Government are in a position to make a statement about the crisis in Ireland, and, if not, when they will be in a position to do so?
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My Lords, I should, of course, be willing to place your Lordships in possession of all such facts relating to the situation in Ireland as could be made plain to-day, but I am of opinion that it would be better for this House to conform to the decision which has been taken in another place—namely, that a statement on behalf of the Government should be made there to-morrow. I think it will be made formally on the Motion that the House do adjourn. A statement could, of course, be made here with equal convenience upon the Motion of the noble Marquess, if it be repeated to-morrow. I think, on the whole, that it would be better if it were postponed, because, although it is true that the statement would probably not be made with finality, we do gain at least twenty-four hours in a period in which discussion and deliberation are proceeding almost without interruption. I shall be able to make a very candid statement to your Lordships to-morrow as to the precise situation as we see it.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: In those circumstances it would probably be for the convenience of your Lordships if I did not proceed with the Motion which stands in my name on the Paper this afternoon, and I will postpone it, therefore, until to-morrow. It is possible that when your Lordships reach the Order to-day, I may have one or two words to say in postponing it, but I should like to assure the House that it will not be troubled with anything like a discussion this evening.

AYR BURGH (ELECTRICITY) BILL. [H.L.]
Read 3a and passed, and sent to the Commons.
TORQUAY CORPORATION (ELECTRICITY) BILL. [H.L.]
Read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
BRISTOL CORPORATION BILL.
Read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
NOTTINGHAMSHIRE AND DERBYSHIRE TRAMWAYS BILL.
Read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.

KINGSTON-UPON-HULL CORPORATION BILL. [H.L.]
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE): My Lords, I beg to make the Motion standing in my name in regard to this Bill, in the interests of the despatch of public business.
Moved, That Standing Order No. 143 be considered in order to its being dispensed with in respect of the said Bill, and that the Bill be now read 3a.—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)
On Question, Motion agreed to: Bill read 3a accordingly, and passed, and sent to the Commons.

MINISTRY OF HEALTH PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (No. 4) BILL. [H.L.]
House in Committee (according to Order) on re-commitment of the Bill: Amendments proposed by the Committee made.

AUDIT (LOCAL AUTHORITIES, ETC.) BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH (THE EARL OF ONSLOW): My Lords, this is quite a short Bill. Its object is to save expenditure by substituting an annual for a half-yearly audit. It has been asked for by boards of guardians and rural district councils, and it is also applied to the overseers

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of the poor, because their accounts are closely linked up with those of the other authorities. It is not anticipated that there will be any danger in the reform, as none has occurred in the system of annual audit followed by urban district councils and parish councils; but there is a provision for a special audit under Clause 2 should any occasion arise for it.
On Question, Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

OIL IN NAVIGABLE WATERS BILL. [H.L.]
Order of the Day for the resumed debate on the Motion for the Second Reading read.
THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (THE EARL OF CRAWFORD): My Lords, it has been found convenient that this Bill should not be taken to-day. I propose, therefore, to postpone it until an early date in the sittings after Whitsuntide.

ALLOTMENTS BILL. [H.L.]
Order of the Day for the Third Reading read.
The King's consent and the consent of His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, in right of his Duchy of Cornwall, signified.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 3a.—(The Earl of Ancaster.)
On Question, Bill read 3a: Privilege Amendments made: Bill passed and sent to the Commons.

NAVAL DISCIPLINE BILL. [H.L.]
Amendment reported (according to Order).

EMPIRE SETTLEMENT BILL.
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Earl of Crawford.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
House in Committee accordingly.
[The EARL of DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]
Clause 1 agreed to.
Clause 2:
Application to protectorates, etc.
2. His Majesty may by Order in Council direct that this Act shall apply to any territory which is under His Majesty's protection, or in respect of which a mandate is being exercised by the government of any part of His Majesty's Dominions as if that territory were a part of His Majesty's Dominions, and, on the making of any such order, this Act shall, subject to the provisions of the Order, have effect accordingly.
LORD RAGLAN LORD RAGLAN moved to leave out Clause 2. The noble Lord said: The noble Earl in charge of the Bill said that Clause 2 is an enabling clause. I think it is. It enables the Government to do that which I venture to think is outside the provisions of the Bill. The object of this measure is to facilitate migration within the Empire. The Protectorates and mandated territories are not, strictly speaking, within the Empire. The question of white settlement in the Tropics is a very difficult one, and I shall not trouble your Lordships with any arguments upon it, but I think it will be generally admitted that the only settlers welcomed in our tropical Dependencies are persons with capital, to whom I presume the provisions of this Bill will not apply. It will be known to many of your Lordships that there are in our tropical Dependencies a class of persons known as "mean whites," who are a very serious nuisance. I do not suggest that the passing of this clause will necessarily encourage that class of person, but I think that there is a danger that it might be so, and if the clause were omitted it would make it quite plain that the object of this Bill is to facilitate migration within the Dominions.
Amendment moved—
Leave out Clause 2.—(Lord Raglan.)
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: Lord Raglan is correct in saying that the primary object of this Bill is to promote settlement within the Dominions overseas. Clause 2 extends it to mandated territory or to territory under His Majesty's protection—in fact, to a Protectorate—and I think it would be a great pity if that power were withdrawn from the Government. In no case can it or would it be exercised without the assent, and the cordial assent, of the Oversea Government concerned. There are certain portions of Africa which are eminently suitable for settlement, notably, portions of what was German East Africa, and if this clause be excluded it

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would be impossible for people to go to that part of Africa, which, from all accounts, has a very great future before it.
LORD RAGLAN: It will not be impossible for them to go; it will only mean that they will not receive Government assistance, and the class of persons it is desirable to encourage to go to that part of Africa is not the class of persons which requires Government assistance.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: When I said it would make it impossible, I meant that it would make it impossible for such emigrants to use the opportunities afforded by this Bill. I do not agree at all that such a place as Kenya, for instance, or parts of the German Colonies in Africa, are open to nobody except persons of large capital. I cannot accept that view, and I greatly hope that your Lordships will maintain this clause. I acknowledge that I do not suppose that it applies to 1 per cent. of the total number of people who will benefit by the Bill as a whole, but it is valuable, and I should greatly deprecate any action which would exclude these very hopeful and profitable territories from the purview of the Bill.
On Question, Amendment negatived.
Clause 2 agreed to.
Clause 3 agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment.

SITUATION IN IRELAND.
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY had given Notice to call attention to the situation in Ireland; and to move for Papers. The noble Marquess said: My Lords, as I ventured to say to your Lordships just now, I do not propose to proceed with the Motion which stands in my name on the Paper to-night, but to postpone it till tomorrow. In postponing the matter, however, I might say that although, in view of what has been stated, it would be to the general convenience that the discussion should not take place to-day, yet the situation in Ireland is so critical that it seems to me important that the position in which many of us stand should be stated quite clearly.
In the first place, attacks by Republican organisations upon Ulster cannot be tolerated. The Treaty ought to be maintained
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in the letter and in the spirit on both sides, and it is unnecessary to say that the status of a Republic, either actual or virtual, for any part of Ireland, must be absolutely resisted. We are deeply concerned for the safety of Southern loyalists, but even in this respect we do not think a policy of surrender would be of any avail. If His Majesty's Government feel it their duty to advise His Majesty to take any measures necessary to vindicate the foregoing principles, we are prepared to give them our fullest support. My Lords, in making that statement I speak in the name of a great many other noble Lords.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: I can assure the House that the Government is indebted to the noble Marquess for having stated the conclusions which he and his friends have reached. From the overwhelming number of them as stated, neither to-day nor to-morrow shall I have to dissent at all. As to their detailed application, when I have had the pleasure of hearing the noble Marquess elaborate his thesis to-morrow, I shall be in a position more clearly to state how far the Government are in agreement.

GAS REGULATION ACT, 1920 (SPECIAL ORDERS).
LORD SOMERLEYTON: My Lords, it may be remembered that under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920, the Board of Trade are empowered to make Special Orders conferring various powers on companies and local authorities in relation to the supply of gas, but the section provides that any such Order shall be laid in draft before both Houses of Parliament, and shall not be made unless both Houses approve the draft, either without modification or addition, or after modification or addition to which both Houses agree. I do not know whether your Lordships will wish that each Motion standing in my name shall be moved separately, or that they shall all be moved together.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: If there is no objection I will put all the Motions together.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920, on the application of the Aylesbury Gas Company, which was presented

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on the 16th May, and published, be approved.—(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920, on the application of the Coat-bridge Gas Company, which was presented on the 2nd May, and published, be approved. —(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920, on the application of the Felixstowe Gas Light Company, which was presented on the 9th May, and published, be approved.—(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920, on the application of the Hinckley Urban District Council, which was presented on the 25th May, and published, be approved.—(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920, on the application of the Holyhead and North Wales Gas and Water Corporation, Limited, hi respect of their Holyhead Gas undertaking which was presented on the 23rd May, and published, approved.—(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation
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Act, 1920, on the application of the Rhymney and Aber Valleys Gas and Water Company, which was presented on the 10th April, and published, be approved.—(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920, on the application of the Sittingbourne District Gas Company, which was presented on the 23rd May, and published, be approved.—(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920, on the application of the Southport Corporation, which was presented on the 25th May, and published, be approved.—(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Moved, That the Draft Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under Section 10 of the Gas Regulation Act:, 1920, on the application of the Farnham Gas and Electricity Company, which was presented on 29th May, and published, be approved.—(Lord Somerleyton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: My Lords, from what I can learn it would be most convenient that the House should meet at the usual time to-morrow—namely, a quarter to four—and commence business at four o'clock.
House adjourned at a quarter before five o'clock.