§ THE EARL OF DARTMOUTHMy Lords, I have given the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, notice of a point I desire to raise with reference to a Private Bill. I want to know how it comes about that the Ministry of Health Provisional Order (Wolverhampton Extension) Bill has been taken off the Order Paper. I have had no communication with anybody about it, and I cannot understand how it can have happened. Some little time back I saw the noble Earl and arranged with him as to when it was to come on. He informed me that it was immaterial to him, and that he desired to suit the convenience of myself and others who were interested. It was fixed for to-day, but we suddenly find it is taken off the Paper.
I should like to read an extract from a letter from a firm of Parliamentary agents concerning this matter. The first notice I got of any change in the arrangement was rather a cryptic message over the telephone, received while I was out, and it did not seem quite clear. I was informed in that message that a letter would be written, and I waited to receive it. I will read a paragraph of that letter—
Under the present circumstances, and in view of the altered form of your Lordship's Motion, it appears to the Corporation of Wolverhampton, whose agents we are, to be highly desirable that no effort should be spared to arrive at an agreement between the rival interests on this Bill. On the instructions of the Corporation, therefore, and with the consent of the Ministry of Health, in whose conduct, of course, the Bill is, we have asked the authority of the House of Lords to postpone the Second Reading stage after Tuesday next, and this has been done.This seems to me to be a remarkable method of procedure. I should like to know how it comes about that this outside body, of whom I had never heard until I got this letter, can come in and change the arrangements without any consultation with those interested. "We," they say, "have asked the authorities of the House of Lords." What authority has an outside body to do this?
THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH (THE EARL OF ONSLOW)My Lords, I am very glad that the noble Earl has given me an opportunity of referring to this question. I was equally ignorant with him that the Bill was taken off the Paper and postponed from Tuesday to Thursday. Originally, the Bill was put down—I forget for what date exactly—and the noble Earl and his friends asked me if it could be postponed. My answer to that was that, so far as I was concerned, the Bill might be taken on any day which was most convenient to all concerned, and eventually a date was settled. I think the original proposal was Thursday, though as to that I am not sure, but it was finally settled for Tuesday. Then I understand it was represented to the officials of my Department that it was possible that an agreement would be arranged between the two sides, and, if that was done, we were asked whether we had any objection, from our point of view, to a postponement. I understand that the answer was the same as I have given to other noble Lords who have asked me the question—namely, that we had no objection to any postponement, or to any arrangement which would suit the general convenience. That is all, so far as I understand, that has passed through my Department.
The next thing I saw was that the Bill had been postponed until Thursday next. I immediately heard from Lord Strachie, got into touch with him, and told him what had passed so far as we were concerned; and as a result of that it is proposed by the noble Lord that the Bill should be taken off the list for Thursday next, and put down provisionally for the first day that Parliament meets after the Whitsuntide holidays. I leave that, of course, in your Lordships' hands. I am extremely sorry that the noble Earl has been inconvenienced in this way. It certainly was not the desire of the Ministry of Health that the noble Earl or his friends should be inconvenienced. I understand that what really happened was that the agent of one of the parties went to the Lord Chairman's office, and represented that an endeavour was being made to arrive at an agreement, and asked whather a postponement could be arranged. Perhaps the noble Earl, the Lord Chairman, would explain exactly what did take place. I should prefer that he did so.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE)My Lords, on the facts I have nothing to add to what has been said by the noble Earl opposite and my noble friend behind me. I feel that the noble Earl, Lord Dartmouth, has a considerable grievance and I feel the grievance myself. I was rung up on the telephone on Friday and given to understand that the Ministry of Health had no objection to this postponement. It is not my Bill; it is a Ministry of Health Bill, and naturally I assumed—and I do not think I was assuming too much—that if there was no objection on the part of the Ministry of Health to a postponement (and I took it for what it was worth), there would be no objection to it on the part of anybody else. I was asked whether I had any objection. I am not concerned with this Bill on Second Reading at all. It is a Government Bill, and, of course, I had no objection to the postponement. I shall be very much concerned when it reaches, if it ever does reach, the Committee stage; but that is another story.
Desiring, as I do, that things should go smoothly, I raised this question at once: I said that it was very late, and that if a postponement took place it should be announced in the Minutes at once so that everybody should have the earliest information of it. In fact, I think I urged that Lord Dartmouth should be informed, and I assumed that it had been done, or, if it had not been done, that he would be given the earliest possible information of the Bill being postponed. I understood that negotiations were initiated yesterday which would lead to a settlement, but evidently that has not been the result. There has evidently been a hideous mistake, and I hope your Lordships will not blame the officers of the House, because it is not their fault. If I can blame myself for anything I can only do so for assuming that the agent for the Wolverhampton Corporation and the other parties concerned were in very much closer touch with the Ministry of Health than they really were.
§ THE EARL OF DARTMOUTHMy Lords, I thank the two noble Earls who have addressed themselves to this matter, and I absolve them both from having any share in what has taken place. I can assure the noble Earl, the Lord Chairman, that there is no possible question of any agreement between the Staffordshire County Council 567 and the Corporation of Wolverhampton. We are out for a principle, and there is no question of a compromise in the matter.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEESAs a matter of convenience to all your Lordships, I would like to ask whether we can now agree on a day. The Bill is down for Thursday; is it intended to take the Bill on that day?
§ THE EARL OF DARTMOUTHNo, I think not.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWI venture to suggest to your Lordships, provisionally, that the Bill should be taken on the first day on which Parliament meets after the Whitsuntide recess.
§ THE EARL OF DARTMOUTHThat is a day which we will arrange—one that will not be altered by outside bodies.