HL Deb 21 March 1922 vol 49 cc639-41

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Viscount Burnham.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The EARL of DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

LORD ASKWITH had given Notice to move, after Clause 2, to insert the following new clause:—

"For the protection of the Salvation Army.

". Nothing in this Act or in any Order made under this Act shall prevent the use of the name 'The Life Saving Scouts and Guards of the World' in connection with the organisation established under that name by the Salvation Army or prohibit the members of the said organisation from using the special names or designations, wearing the uniform or wearing or using the badges and distinctive marks prescribed by the Orders and Regulations for Young People issued and for the time being in force under the authority of the General of the Salvation Army."

The noble Lord said: I have had a conversation with Viscount Burnham, and also with the noble Earl (the Earl of Onslow) and I understand that they propose that a conference should take place, to see whether an agreed Amendment cannot be arrived at in regard to this matter, which I am raising for the protection of the Salvation Army. On that understanding I am prepared to defer the consideration of the matter until the Report stage, with liberty to bring up the matter again.


Before the noble Earl speaks on behalf of the Government may I say that I quite agree with the attitude taken up by the noble Lord. I was going to speak on his Amendment, in order to show that there are other associations besides the Salvation Army that ought to be safeguarded; but I entirely agree that it is better to consider all these matters on Report stage.


On behalf of the Government, I could not accept the noble Lord's Amendment, but in the event of any discussions which may take place my right honourable friend will be very glad to meet the noble Viscount and the noble Lord, and to go into any question with a view to getting mutual agreement.


I should like to say that those for whom I speak concur in the proposed arrangement, and I hope we may settle the matter for ourselves.


I should like to know what the Government propose. You wish to prevent the usurpation of titles already in existence by somebody who has no right to them. Surely the Government must be in a position to say what they intend to do. Do they intend to make the general terms of the Bill subject to restrictions by Order in Council, or by some other Order, which will enable those who have already had the use of these titles to keep them? The Salvation Army, as I understand, had the use of the title "Scout" earlier than the Boy Scouts' Association. If so, provision ought to be made for that. The Government must know, one way or the other, what they intend to do, and I think there ought to be some more definite agreement than we now perceive before this Bill can go further. What does the noble Earl propose?

Remaining clause agreed to.