§ Brought from the Commons.
§ Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Viscount Peel.)
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, it has not been the practice for your Lordships to raise a discussion upon the First Reading of a Bill, and, except in very small particulars, I do not intend to depart from that practice. I do not desire to raise any discussion upon the actual provisions of the Bill, which, technically, is not as yet communicated to your Lordships; much less do I propose to discuss the merits of its clauses; but, in a matter of this great importance and complication, it seems to me to be for the convenience of your Lordships that, before we enter upon a discussion of the Second Reading, we should know exactly the stages of the policy of His Majesty's Government—how one follows the other in order to achieve the end which they have in view. Therefore I shall venture to put a few questions to the noble Viscount, Lord Peel, of which he has received private notice, so that your Lordships may understand the course of proceeding that is actually proposed.
In the first place, how many Bills are there to be in order to carry out the policy of His Majesty's Government? There is the present Bill, which is now to be read a first time. Is there to be, in addition, a Bill to set up the Constitution of Southern Ireland? Is there, further, to be a Bill to amend the Government of Ireland Act, 409 1920? Your Lordships will remember that this Free State Government only applies to a part of Ireland, and that, so far as the North East of Ireland is concerned, the Act of 1920 remains in force. Therefore, I presume there will require to be another Bill to make the adjustments necessary in the Act of 1920, which will then apply only to a part of Ireland. Further, I understand that there will have to be an Indemnity Bill, because, as you are aware, all the proceedings which are now taking place in Ireland are breaches of the law. Therefore, the first question I ask is: How many Bills are proposed to be taken, in order to carry out the policy of the Government?
The next question has reference to Article 11 of the Agreement. That Article provides that nothing shall come into force in Northern Ireland for a month after the Act, of Parliament for the ratification of this instrument, and during that month Northern Ireland can specify its refusal to come into the Free State. What we want to know is whether this Bill now before the House is, in fact, the Bill for the ratification of the instrument, from the passage of which the month's interval is to be calculated.
The third question is as to the order of events in Ireland. The original intention of His Majesty's Government, I understand, was that as soon as the Bill now before us was passed there was to be a General Election in Ireland, and, after that, the new Constitution was to be framed and passed into law. Now, owing to a change of view that has taken place in Ireland, and which has been accepted by His Majesty's Government, the Constitution to be framed in pursuance of this Bill, which we are now about to read a first time, is to be framed not after the General Election in Ireland, but before it. Is that so? Your Lordships will see the importance of it—that the General Election in Ireland will take place not in order to approve or disapprove of the Treaty, but to approve or disapprove of the actual detailed Constitution which follows on the Treaty. A further division of that question is whether this Constitution, so framed in Ireland, is to be passed into law in this Parliament, and in your Lordships' House, before the General Election in Ireland; that is to say, whether it is a Bill for the Irish Constitution which is going to be submitted to the Irish people, or an 410 Act for the Irish Constitution which is going to be in issue in this General Election.
The fourth question is what powers and machinery are to be transferred by Order in Council under the present Bill? Probably your Lordships have learnt through the usual sources of information that under the present Bill the Provisional Government is to be set up by Orders in Council, and what I venture to ask, in order that discussion may be clear when we come to the Second Reading, is: What are the powers which are to be transferred under these provisions to the Provisional Government? That is to say, is it the full authority of a Dominion Government which is to be transferred to them, or only parts of it? Further, are they to have only administrative powers, or are they to have legislative powers? During the four months that elapse before the process of setting up the new Irish Constitution is carried out, are there to be legislative powers exercised in Ireland or not? If the answer is in the affirmative, then by what legislative body are they to be carried out? Because there is no legal Parliament in Ireland, and there cannot be until the second Bill for the Constitution of Ireland has been passed.
The fifth and the last question is: At what stage are the obligations of the Imperial Government to be carried into effect for making good the compensation which is due to those who have been injured in the Rebellion, and for making good the completion of land purchase in Ireland? As soon as the Irish Constitution is fully set up all these matters will become germane to its jurisdiction. But I cannot doubt that the Government will think it an absolute obligation upon them to see that the people who are injured whilst in their service, and whilst they were in authority in Ireland, are not deprived of their compensation by reason of the change, and therefore, no doubt, they will take powers, in some form or other, to make good that compensation.
And the same is true of the completion of land purchase, for your Lordships will remember that the Government are pledged up to the eyes to pass an Act for the completion of land purchase in Ireland, which was to have accompanied the Home Rule Act of 1920, and which is very much overdue. I want to know in what part of the procedure will these obligations of honour be met. Will they be met before the Bill 411 creating the detailed Constitution in Ireland is passed into law, or after it? Because, although the obligation is primarily an obligation of His Majesty's Government, it is also an obligation of Parliament, an obligation of your Lordships' House, which I am quite sure your Lordships' House will see is properly fulfilled.
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER (VISCOUNT PEEL)My Lords, I will endeavour to answer the questions of the noble Marquess as briefly as I can, though, in all, they amount to rather a complicated series. The first point was about the number of Bills required. The noble Marquess asked whether a Bill would be required to set up the Constitution of the Irish Free State. The answer is, Yes, it will lie required. That is the first Bill that will be required. He also asked whether a Bill to amend the Government of Ireland Act, 1920, will be required. Certainly, a Bill will be required for that, but I understand that these particular provisions might be embodied in the Bill for setting up the Constitution of the Irish Free State, and there will be other necessary results from that; and it may be, therefore, that there will be one Bill and not two Bills.
§ THE MARQUESS oF SALISBURYThe Government have not made up their minds?
§ VISCOUNT PEELNo, it is not necessary at this stage for them to make up their minds, but I answer the question substantially by saying that it does not matter, as far as administrative form is concerned, whether it is one Bill or two Bills. The third point was as to an Indemnity Bill. That. Bill will be required. It is already drafted, I understand, and very nearly ripe for introduction. The noble Marquess asked also: Is the present Bill the Bill for the ratification of the Articles of Agreement referred to in Article 11 of the Agreement; if not, what will be the required Bill? Of course, the importance of this lies in what is known as the "Ulster month"—from what date will that month begin to run? The month begins to run, by general agreement, not from the date when this measure with which we are now dealing becomes an Act, but from the later date; that is to say, when the Bill setting up the Constitution of the Irish Free State becomes an Act. That is the date from which that month will begin to run. Is that clear?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYPerfectly clear.
§ VISCOUNT PEELThen, as to the Constitution of the Irish Free State. That is the next question, I think. Is it to be framed—
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYPerhaps I bad better read the question. It actually runs:—Is the Constitution of the Irish Free State (1) to be framed, (2) to be submitted to the Imperial Parliament, before a General Election is held in Southern Ireland? That is to say. Is it to be framed before a General Election is held, and, in the second place, is it to be submitted to the Imperial Parliament before that date?
§ VISCOUNT PEELThe answer is quite clear. It is to be framed—the Provisional Government is responsible for that measure—before a General Election is held in Southern Ireland. I think one of the objects of the postponement was that there might be placed before the Irish electors not only the Articles of Agreement, but also the Constitution carrying those Articles into effect, that they may know perfectly well what they are voting about. The second point is: Is it to be submitted to the Imperial Parliament before a General Election? It is not to be submitted to the Imperial Parliament before the General Election, because it is important that the matter should be settled by Ireland; whether they accept it, or whether they do not. There would be no use submitting it to the Imperial Parliament before it had been accepted by the newly-elected Parliament.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYThe Imperial Parliament has to accept anything the Irish electors want?
§ VISCOUNT PEELNo, that is not so because the instrument will be published, and then it will be known whether or not it comes within the four corners of the Articles of Agreement.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYWhatever comes within the four corners of the Articles of Agreement, whatever it may be, as far as the Government are concerned, is to be accepted without change by the Imperial Parliament?
§ VISCOUNT PEELNot necessarily at all. It then comes before the Imperial Parliament. The Imperial Parliament, of course, will have its responsibility in the matter. The fourth question is: What powers of machinery are to be transferred by Order in Council under the present Bill? The answer to that is that the whole administrative power and machinery will be so transferred. Then, as to the Legislature, the noble Marquess has quite correctly stated that there is no Parliament at present. I believe there are several Parliaments, but, at any rate, there is no legal Parliament functioning now in the South of Ireland, and obviously, there being no instrument for legislation, there can be no legislation. But after the Election (because though this is not very close it is relevant to the point the noble Marquess raised) the new Legislature will be established which will, till the establishment of the Free State, have power to legislate with respect to matters within the jurisdiction of the Provisional Government in the administrative government of Southern Ireland.
The noble Marquess's last point is: At what stage will compensation for malicious injuries and completion of land purchase in Ireland be dealt with by legislation in the Imperial Parliament? Compensation for malicious injuries to property will be dealt with in the Indemnity Bill. As to the completion of land purchase, that in Northern Ireland will require an Act of the Imperial Parliament. The completion of land purchase in Southern Ireland will be a matter with which the Free State Parliament will have to deal. As to injuries to persons, each side—each country—will meet the claims of its own sympathisers for damage.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI do not quite understand that last phrase—each side?
§ VISCOUNT PEELThe British Government and the Provisional Government will meet the damages of its own sympathisers.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYWill it not be rather a delicate matter to adjust that exactly? How will that be done?
§ VISCOUNT PEELI should think it quite possible it will be a delicate matter.
LORD ORANMORE AND BROWNEMay I ask the noble Viscount whether the Imperial Government repudiate any res- 414 ponsibility for the promises which have been made to this Parliament to settle the Irish land question in Southern Ireland as well as in Northern Ireland, and which have been stated by several Ministers to be an obligation of honour and a necessary part of a plan of Irish settlement.
§ VISCOUNT PEELI do not understand that the Imperial Parliament denies any of its obligations or any of its undertakings.
LORD ORANMORE AND BROWNEI understood the noble Viscount to say that it was to be left to the Free State to complete the land purchase in Southern Ireland.
§ VISCOUNT PEELIn reply to that, may I say that if you set up this independent Government in Ireland you cannot, of course, deal with land or property in Ireland in the same way as you could if it remained under the full control of the Imperial Government.
§ LORD CARSONMy Lords, I should like to have one or two matters made a little more definite because think they are matters which, if they are not cleared up, may create great difficulties in Ireland, and when I talk of difficulties in Ireland I mean real, serious difficulties among the people. In the first place, the noble Viscount says that this Bill, which is now going to be read a first time, is not the Bill referred to in Article 11 of the Treaty. My own view is that it is the Bill referred to in Article because II think this Bill ratifies the Instrument. The first clause of it states that the Articles of Agreement set forth in the Schedule to the Act shall have "the force of law as from the date of the passing of this Act."
If you say a Treaty is to have the force of law you have certainly ratified it, as far as my opinion is worth anything. I know that is the view of other lawyers besides myself. That is a matter which ought not to be left indefinite, because upon that depends the voting by Ulster out of the Free State into which you are proposing to put them, If the matter is left as it is I strongly advise Ulster, so far as my advice is worth anything, to take the construction I have put upon it so as not to find themselves afterwards in difficulty through what seems to me to be a very strained and very forced attempt at reading this Treaty. If the Government wanted to do so they could make it per- 415 fectly clear, I have no doubt, by a section in this Bill; but in the absence of that, I can only say that in my opinion it would be extremely dangerous for Ulster not to take that reading of the words in Article 11: "Until the expiration of one month from the passing of the Act of Parliament for the ratification of this instrument…." That is the first matter to which I desire to refer, and I think your Lordships will see that it ought to be left in no ambiguity at all; because it is a matter which will create passionate feeling in the North of Ireland, probably also in the South of Ireland, and is one which may lead to collision. It is also, I think, one of the many matters which, through their ambiguity in this Treaty are keeping up the very grave state of affairs which exists in Northern Ireland at the present time.
The second matter to which I should like to call attention is this. The noble Viscount said that the Constitution Bill which is to be submitted to the Irish electorate—in the South and West, I suppose, because there is no power to hold Elections in the North unless they are willing to stay in—will be submitted to the electors in the South and West of Ireland before it has passed this House, or before it has passed the two Houses of Parliament, as it must, to become an Act. I think that is a very grave announcement, for this reason. If an Election is held in Ireland and that Act is practically adopted by the course the Election takes of putting into power the particular Party, who will be the Provisional Government, who promoted that Act and who promoted this Treaty, I would like to know how this Parliament is afterwards to alter it?
You would be holding an Election on the plea that that was to be the Constitution. If the electorate adopted it and, as the noble Viscount says, it is then to come before this Parliament and this Parliament will have power to alter it, that does not seem to me to he a very businesslike transaction. It seems to me to be an extremely dangerous transaction in regard to Ireland. Because they will say: "We agreed to the setting up of the Provisional Government, to the adoption of the Treaty and to the Constitution under the Treaty. Now we find that that is not binding on the Imperial Parliament, and it has to go before them, and it may be altered." I hope that the Government will reconsider that matter.
416 On the other hand, so complex and so uncertain is the whole of this Treaty, if you take it the other way, that the Bill cannot be altered once the electorate there have approved of it, then, in a matter which gravely affects the whole of this country as well as Ireland, you are practically taking away and abolishing the whole power of the two Houses of Parliament here. That, also, is a very serious matter and, having listened to the debates in the House of Commons during the Committee stage of the Bill, I am apprehensive that what will happen will he just what happened about this Treaty which was entered into behind the backs of all of us—that when the Bill comes up, after it has passed the Irish Parliament which is to be set up after the Elections, we shall be told: "Do not dare to alter a comma in it, because if you do you will upset the whole matter which has already gone before the electors in Ireland." I have not the faintest doubt that is what we shall be told eventually by the Government if it is allowed to proceed in that way. I do not want to comment upon it now, but the whole of this question arises from not adhering to the original form in which this Bill was brought in, and by reason of the concession that Mr. Collins and his Party at the Dail Eireann were compelled to make to Mr. de Valera, which seems to me to have altered the whole basis of the Constitution—which was to be expected.
There is one other point about which I should like to ask the noble Viscount. He has told us, as I understand, that when this Bill becomes law they are going to pass over, under Orders in Council, the whole administration to the Provisional Government. I do not know whether I took down his words correctly but "the whole administration and powers" was all I was able to take down; I do not know whether that is accurate. If that is so, I should like to know what is to become of the 1920 Act as it relates to Northern Ireland? Let me point out to the noble Viscount that the whole, or a great deal, of the Act of 1920 in relation to Northern Ireland will have to be recast from top to bottom if any such plan as has been indicated is carried out.
Let me take one thing. I suppose by Order in Council you will hand over, as you would to one of our Dominions—and that is the only guide apparently that this gives—the collection of Taxes, the Customs 417 and Excise, Income Tax and the various other Taxes that go to make up the income in Ireland. What will be the result of that? The whole basis of the 1920 Act, as it affects Northern Ireland, is that this country collects all the Taxes, and then divides them between the two Parliaments in certain proportions (which are laid down by the Act) with the assistance of a Board, if I remember aright, called the Exchequer Board. But the moment you carry out this arrangement with the South and West the whole of that is gone, because you no longer have the money in your hands to divide. An entirely different state of affairs arises. You will continue to collect all the Taxes, including Customs and Excise and Income Tax in the North of Ireland, but there will be no method whatsoever of dividing them between the North and the South, and therefore the whole basis of the 1920 Act will fall to the ground. That is a matter that requires serious consideration. Ever since last May, when the Parliament in Northern Ireland was opened, you have been absolutely retarding and hindering its progress by not settling these various matters.
I will also refer to another vital matter. There is a Council for the whole of Ireland in the 1920 Act. That has a number of matters to deal with, including railways and fisheries, and other things that are common both to the North and South. If you are going to hand over those powers to the Provisional Government what is going to become of them so far as concerns the North of Ireland? It is only through the Council that they operate there, and, under your scheme, there will be no Council in the South and West of Ireland as provided by the 1920 Act. The whole of that matter, therefore, as far as I can see, will remain in chaos.
May I make an appeal to the noble Viscount? Whatever may be the Government's policy towards the South and West, which I am not now criticizing, the Government having set up a Parliament in the North of Ireland—a Parliament which the North were asked to take and which they did take loyally—really have some obligation to see that that Parliament is allowed to function, and is not hampered and kept in a state of suspended animation, such as that in which it is at the present moment, and is not thrown, as it probably will be by this latest policy, into a state of chaos after you have set up the Pro- 418 visional Government. I can assure your Lordships that the course the Government is taking in relation to the Northern Ireland Parliament is one that is seriously hampering the restoration of peace in that part of Ireland. So long as these questions are left open and outstanding you leave the people in a condition of doubt, danger and difficulty which prevents them from settling down to what they want, to do that is, to work the Parliament which you have put upon them.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I think the thanks of the House are due to my noble friend on the front bench opposite for having raised this debate. We have obtained a certain amount of information, not perhaps a great deal, but still some, upon a number of points which have exercised our minds a good deal of late in connection with this Bill, and observations such as those which have just been addressed to us by the noble and learned Lord on the back bench (Lord Carson) will certainly demand the attentive consideration of His Majesty's Government during the interval which must elapse between this evening and the full discussion of the matter in Committee. What I wanted to say in particular was this. I conceive that we are all interested' in two points. In the first place, we want to have a definite idea of the series of measures—subsidiary measures was, I. think, the expression used by my noble friend—which are to follow upon this Bill.
But what is even more important than that is that we desire to know a little more precisely what real opportunities are going to be offered to this House for debating and, if necessary, amending the proposals contained in the scheme of His Majesty's Government. Up to the present I have seen no indication of any real desire on the part of His Majesty's Government to give us such opportunities. We certainly had no such opportunity when the Treaty came before us in December last. It was thrown at our heads to take or to leave, and with plain indications of what might happen if we did not choose to take it.
With regard to this Bill like the noble and learned Lord, have been attempting to follow the discussions in another place, and I have gathered fromlie reports of those discussions that we are to understand distinctly, so far as His Majesty's 419 Government are concerned, that no kind of Amendment can be accepted by His Majesty's Government which might have the effect of altering, amplifying, explaining, or even elucidating the Bill before the House. That was the formula used by the distinguished colleague, of the noble and learned Viscount upon the Woolsack in another place. Therefore, as far as this Bill is concerned, I gather that any proposals of ours will be met by a blank and peremptory refusal on the part of His Majesty's Government. Very well. Then there remains in the background that other Bill which is to come before Parliament, the Bill which will embody the new Constitution of the Irish Free State. I wish I felt sure that even when that Bill comes to us we shall have a real opportunity of criticising it, or, if necessary, of procuring alteration in it. I think I recall a passage in a speech made by the Secretary of State for the Colonies in which he indicated very unobscurely that that. Bill was to be regarded as, I think he said, sacrosanct. The noble Viscount on the front bench said something to the effect that so long as the Bill remained within the four corners of the Treaty—I think that was what he said—no changes in it could possibly be entertained.
It comes then to this, my Lords, that Parliament is to have no chance of making its wishes fell in regard to these proposals. I find a very slender ray of hope in something that was said by the Secretary of State for the Colonies as to yet a further Bill, which was to be of the nature of an excrescence on the Constitution Bill and which was to be used for the purpose of introducing necessary modifications. I think that something was said about "consequent reactions," whatever they may be. But I rose really for the purpose of expressing a hope that, in spite of these discouraging and almost sinister omens, we may yet be told by His Majesty's Government that at sonic stage we shall be given a chance of criticising the proposals of His Majesty's Government, and of criticising them usefully. By that I mean that if we make a criticism and establish it, show that it is sound, His Majesty's Government will not shelter themselves behind what I may call the chose jugée argument, but will take their courage in both hands, listen to what we have to say, and if it is really an improvement in the measure, insist upon its addition to the scheme of the Bill.
§ VISCOUNT PEELMy Lords, your Lordships will realise that I am in sonic difficulty in answering all the questions that have been put to me, because I have only had recent notice of the question put by the noble Marquess and have had no notice of the others. But I will endeavour to answer the points put by the noble and learned Lord and by the noble Marquess who has just spoken. The first point raised by the noble and learned Lord was from which Bill does what is called the "Ulster month" begin to run. He said that this is a matter of great importance in Ireland and that having examined the matter himself he was clearly of the opinion that, as this was a ratifying Act, under its strict reading the month ought to run from the period when this Bill becomes an Act. It is not remarkable that he should have taken that view because the same view has been taken already in certain quarters. It was taken by the Irish Ministers, though the opposite view was taken by the Attorney-General here. It is essential, certainly, that the point should be most definitely established, and in answer to the question I have to say that the month will run not from the crate when this Bill becomes an Act but from the date the second Bill establishing the Irish Constitution becomes an Act. The matter has been under discussion with the Irish Ministers and, although they took a different view themselves, it has been definitely agreed that the month should run from the date of the Act of Parliament establishing the Constitution.
§ LORD CARSONMay I ask the noble Viscount a question? I do not expect him to be so well acquainted with the law as I am. When he says it has been agreed that this is to be the construction, it does not make it the construction. The construction is what the Bill means, and, therefore, what I want to know is, if this has been agreed upon—I do not know between whom-will it be made clear upon the face of the Bill? Otherwise, there is no protection.
§ VISCOUNT PEELI should have thought that if the only parties who can act upon the Bill were agreed upon its construction it would settle the matter, but I will consider the point as to the possibility of dealing with it by way of Amendment. The second point raises a rather more difficult matter. It raises the question 421 as to whether the Constitution, when it has been drawn up by the Provisional Government, should be presented in the first instance to the Irish electorate or to the British Parliament. The noble and learned Lord said we should be in great difficulties if it is accepted by the Irish electorate and then comes here and this Parliament amends it. He asked whether there would not be difficulties and friction between the Parliament there and the Parliament here, and knowing that country as well as he does, the noble and learned Lord suggests that there will be great difficulties if a Constitution so drawn up and so accepted is modified here.
There are difficulties both ways. Let me put the other alternative, which is to present this Constitution to the Parliament here before it has been submitted for approval to the electorate in Ireland. I ask the noble and learned Lord whether he thinks that the fact that it has been previously approved by the Parliament here before having been submitted to the Irish electorate will greatly recommend it to that electorate, or whether they will be more likely to accept a Constitution coming from this country, something in the nature of a British manufactured Constitution rather than one they had accepted already themselves. I point out that difficulty to the noble and learned Lord. Obviously, it must go here first or there first, and surely the noble and learned Lord will think that on the balance it has probably a better chance of passing if it does not come first from here as a British made Constitution.
§ LORD CARSONThe noble Viscount has asked me a question, and I am bound to say that once the Irish electorate have adopted the Bill I believe that if this Parliament attempts to alter it in the slightest degree you will have the whole thing repudiated.
§ VISCOUNT PEELThe noble and learned Lord, however, has not answered the question, the alternative question, I put to him, as to whether, if it is brought here first and accepted here, it will make it more acceptable to the Irish electorate?
§ LORD CARSONIt is difficult to consider this subject by way of question and answer. But if the Bill is brought in here before it goes to the electorate, there is an opportunity of trying to come to 422 terms with whoever is promoting it in Ireland, and then going to the electorate afterwards for their adoption of it.
§ VISCOUNT PEELThe noble and learned Lord complains that it is rather difficult to give answers to these questions without notice. I find myself under exactly the same difficulty as I had no notice of the questions that were to be raised. The noble and learned Lord also raised the question as to the position of Ulster under the Act of 1920 when the Provisional Government is set up and clothed with these powers. The Act of 1920 remains in force so far as the North of Ireland is concerned even when the Free State is established, assuming, as we do, that Northern Ireland will decide to withdraw itself from the Government of Ireland. With regard to the question about the Council—
§ LORD CARSONA more important point is finance. Will the noble Viscount tell us something about that?
§ VISCOUNT PEELI cannot tell your Lordships anything about finance, but I understand that special arrangements are being made with regard to it. As regards the Council, that is one of the points which will have to be dealt with by consequential legislation. I turn to the other very important point raised by the noble Marquess—namely, that he had noticed in the discussion in another place that the Minister there in charge of the Bill was extremely unwilling to accept any Amendments proposed by honourable members in that House. He stated very fully his reasons therefor. The noble Marquess asked me, I think, whether greater latitude could be given to this House when the subject was discussed here.
I have generally noticed that far greater latitude is not allowed but taken in this House, in the discussion of various subjects, than in another place, and I can only answer his question, I am afraid, in a general form by saying that he himself—so conversant as he is with all these grave matters, and closely conversant as he is also with the difficult state of affairs at present obtaining in Ireland—will be almost a better judge, I think, than anybody in this House as to the risk or danger of a general repudiation of an Agreement of this kind if Amendments explaining, or, adding or taking away, are introduced into 423 that Agreement. He will not fail to observe, moreover, that if these Amendments are introduced here, other Amendments might be introduced there, and that under an arrangement of that kind there might be no finality at all. I think, therefore, I must leave the reply to that question to the great knowledge which the noble Marquess possesses of these very difficult affairs, and of the effect which Amendments might have on the relations between the two countries and the general acceptance of the Agreement.
§ LORD SYDENHAMMay I ask the noble Viscount one question? Can he tell me whether the new Parliament of Southern Ireland, when it is elected, will at once be able to exercise full Dominion powers of legislation before the Bill dealing with the Constitution is passed by Parliament?
§ VISCOUNT PEELI think I did answer that. I said that this Parliament, when elected and before the Free State is fully set up, will be able to exercise those legislative powers.
§ On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.