§ LORD LAMINGTONMy Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government the Questions of which I have given Notice—namely— 276 Whether the Greek Government is to be allowed facilities to obtain a loan in any form from this country; also, what loans or grants of money have been made to Greece since 1914, and to what amount, and on what dates, were any such loans made.
Whether it is a fact that during the French occupation of Western Thrace in 1919 a petition against annexation to Greece was signed by over two-thirds of the population, and was presented to the Allied Powers.
A few days ago, in another place, an answer was given to the effect that His Majesty's Government had refused a loan to Greece, but it was admitted that M. Gounaris, who was then in this country, could apply to the City of London for a loan of £15,000,000. It was also stated that the Greek Government might apply to the Advisory Committee under the Trade Facilities Act for a loan, which would be guaranteed by His Majesty's Government, for expenditure in this country.
I should have thought that we had sufficient financial burdens already without adding to them by allowing Greece to obtain further financial support here. That is, perhaps, a selfish point of view. But it is evident that, directly and indirectly, we have been trying to assist Greece financially. Mr. Montagu, the Secretary of State for India, said that there was no hardship in this, because Turkey might apply equally with Greece to the Advisory Committee. It is obvious, however, that although Greece is in a poor financial state Turkey is practically bankrupt, and any application on the part of Turkey under the Trade Facilities Act would be rejected.
It must be remembered that this money, if it were obtained by Greece, would be devoted to carrying on war against Turkey. At the present moment military operations are suspended, but with the arrival of spring they will, no doubt, be entered upon again. It is obvious, therefore, that by giving financial support to Greece we should pass from that state of neutrality which we were declared to have taken up with regard to any warlike operations between those two countries. It is these evasions on our part which have incurred for us the indignation of Moslems. I need not go into that point in any detail, but your Lordships are aware of the consider- 277 able feeling of irritation that is entertained by Mahomedans, not only in Turkey but throughout the Near East and in India, concerning our conduct in regard to Moslem affairs.
This is extremely unfortunate, and we cannot expect to regain credit for the maintenance of good faith if we indulge in these evasions and these devious practices, which are quite inconsistent with the maintenance of that impartiality which we have undertaken to observe. I only hope that the answer to my Question this afternoon may be a distinct declaration on the part of His Majesty's Government that there is no intention of giving Greece any financial assistance, either directly or indirectly, at the present time; and I trust that, the feeling of hostility now entertained against us by Mahomedans may tons be dispersed. The second Question which I have put down need not be enlarged upon, as it merely concerns a plain matter of fact.
§ LORD ISLINGTONMy Lords, before the noble Earl answers on behalf of the Government, perhaps I may be allowed to support my noble friend by making one or two observations on the extremely important Question which he has raised this afternoon. The rumour has undoubtedly been current for some time that a British loan is to be granted by this country to the Greek Government, and there is no doubt that the very rumour, whether it be true or not, had the effect of accentuating the feelings, already hitter enough, of the whole Mahomedan community throughout the East.
I sincerely hope that His Majesty's Government will be in a position this afternoon definitely to deny the truth of the rumour that the Government are going to give direct facilities for a grant, or to give facilities to private negotiations for a grant. I hope also that the Government, are going to use their influence with the Advisory Committee that has been set up under the Trade Facilities Act to prevent that body from allowing the grant of this loan. Although it might be of a transitory assistance to trade, it would obviously be very injurious to the main object that His Majesty's Government must have in view and which all British interests are seeking to-day—namely, the termination of the war between Greece and Turkey at the earliest possible date.
278 It must be perfectly obvious that if this money is forthcoming to Greece—who, I am given to understand, is in almost as parlous a financial condition as is Turkey to-day—it will enable her, with the very large Army that she possesses in the field, to resume active hostilities against Turkey at an early date in the spring. I venture to say that it should be the first duty of His Majesty's Government to use every endeavour that is in their power to bring that war to a conclusion as quickly as possible. I should like to hear, and I am sure there are many outside your Lordships' House who would be pleased to hear, that His Majesty's Government have decided to disallow the grant of any loan either to Greece or Turkey until the war between them has been brought to an end and peace concluded between this country and Turkey.
Whether it be true or not, there is no doubt that the opinion is prevalent throughout the East that the Prime Minister has thrown an undue influence on the side of the Greek Government as against Turkey. This has undoubtedly had a very injurious effect upon our interests throughout the Continent of Asia. I realise, as all noble Lords must, that this is an extremely difficult and delicate question. One realises that there are two schools of opinion on the subject in this country; if one knew it, there are probably two schools of opinion within the Cabinet itself. There is no doubt that there are many who hold the view that the Turkish Government should be depressed, so far as its interests and possessions in Europe are concerned, in the cause of future Balkan peace. I venture to think that, whilst there are many eminent and experienced people in this country who hold that view, they are apt to consider the question too much to the exclusion of the great injury that is likely to be done to British interests in Asia, and to cast their eyes too much upon the interests of Europe.
British interests, British security and the future peace of the British Empire must, after all, largely depend upon the extent, to which we are able to keep on smooth and even terms with our great community of Mahomedans throughout the East. There is no disguising the fact that so long as anything in the nature of a suspicion arises amongst those people that an undue bias is being shown in favour of a country that is at present at war with Turkey, it must have a correspondingly 279 injurious influence upon our interests. I venture, therefore, to suggest, in supporting my noble friend's Question, that it would be of deep concern and interest to this country if His Majesty's Government would give us a precise answer on this point. I would go further and say that every effort should be made to persuade Greece to bring this war to a conclusion, and that, if persuasion fails, effective pressure should once more be exerted on that country to persuade her to make peace, even to the extent of reimposing the financial blockade which was taken off a few months ago. This country and its interests in the East are deeply concerned in this matter, and, in supporting my noble friend. I would commend it to the most serious attention of His Majesty's Government.
§ LORD SYDENHAMMy Lords, when the noble Earl answers, would he be good enough to say whether it was necessary for the Greek Government to apply for the permission of His Majesty's Government to raise a loan in the City of London It is the asking and obtaining of this permission that has given the matter a sort of official or even political aspect, and has caused sonic of the drawbacks to which the noble Lord has referred.
THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (THE EARL OF CRAWFORD)My Lords, the question of Lord Sydenham is covered, I think, by the reply which will give to your Lordships. Under a financial Agreement of February 10. 1918, the Greek Government undertook not to assign security for any foreign loan without the consent of His Majesty's Government until the advances made under that Agreement had been repaid. These advances have not yet been repaid, and accordingly the consent of His Majesty's Government was necessary for the assignment of security for the loan which the Greek Government are negotiating on the London market. His Majesty's Government granted this consent upon certain conditions which were set forth in the Agreement between the Chancellor of the Exchequer and M. Gounaris. I shall be happy to furnish any noble Lord with a copy of this Agreement. Apart from this special question in relation to the assignment of security for a Greek loan, there is no question of allowing Greece facilities to obtain a loan in this country, since there is no Government 280 control over capital issues and it is the policy of the Government not to intervene between foreign Governments and potential lenders in this market.
As regards the Trade Facilities Act, one application for the guarantee of a Greek loan was rejected on January 5 by the Advisory Committee, and a second application, which was made subsequently, has now been withdrawn. Should a fresh application be made, it would no doubt he considered by the Committee on its merits from the point of view of reducing unemployment. It is the practice of the Treasury to accept any recommendation the Committee make.
During the war munitions and other goods were supplied to the Greek Government, while they were fighting on the side of the Allies, to a total value of £8,112,000 19s., 6d., and cash advances were made to the amount of £1,015,645 12s. 9d. In addition to this debt, the Bank of England, in 1915–1916, advanced £486,943 Os. 4d. to the Greek Government in exchange for Greek Treasury Bills for £500,000 and this loan was afterwards taken over by the Treasury, to whom these Greek Bills were transferred. Further, His Majesty's Government opened book credits in favour of the Greek Government to the amount of 300,000,000 drachmas or £12,291,831 16s. 4d. under Agreements of January, 1916. November, 1917, and February, 1918.
The noble Lord, Lord Lamington has also inquired whether, during the French occupation of Western Thrace, in 1919, a petition against the annexation of that territory to Greece was signed by two-thirds of the population and presented to the Conference in Paris. It is obvious that army direct petition from a population so largely analphabetic would, apart from the length of time needed for its compilation, have been a practical impossibility. It is true that a number of petitions were received in Paris bearing the signatures of persons who styled themselves the representatives of these populations. The least negligible of these petitions was that forwarded by the Moslem deputies in the Bulgarian Parliament—not, in the circumstances, a very convincing source. The petitions from the Moslem deputies demanded the constitution of an autonomous Thracian State stretching from the neighbourhood of Constantinople to the River Strouma, and thus incorporating territory 281 which for all we knew, might remain Turkish, and, in the west, territory which had been Greek before the war.
Counter-petitions in an exactly contrary sense, demanding incorporation within the Kingdom of Greece, were received front so-called representatives of the Christian population. These petitions, similarly irresponsible and similarly contradictory, have continued to reach us ever since. Only within the last week further telegraphic petitions have been received from twenty-live so-called representative bodies in Western Thrace strongly protesting against any attempt to sever their country from the Greek Kingdom. It was, and is, impossible to verify either the credentials of such petitioners or the importance of the several opposed elements which they pretended to represent. Such verification could only be undertaken by an International Commission backed by an inter-Allied Army of occupation, entailing a process of delay, incertitude and expenditure which His Majesty's Government, for their part, are not prepared to contemplate.
The decision which was come to in Paris was based, not, as is sometimes contended, upon empirical considerations, but upon t he scientific comparison of pre-war ethnical statistics, and upon the economic unity of the Thracian territories which forms so strong an argument in the petitions to which the noble Lord refers. The decision was come to after long negotiation between the Powers represented in Paris; it was embodied in a Treaty which has been signed and certified, and, in a Treaty signed sub- 282 sequently but not yet ratified, the economic needs of Bulgaria were amply provided for.
As my noble friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs only recently explained in this House, the Treaty of Neuilly has now become part of the International Law of Europe and cannot be abrogated by unilateral action on the part of His Majesty's Government.
§ LORD LAMINGTONMay I, with your Lordships' permission, thank the noble Earl for the answer which he has given At the same time I regret that it has done nothing to disarm the suspicion, mentioned by Lord Islington, entertained by Nahomedans, that we have departed from that declaration of neutrality, which we should have observed, between Greece and Turkey. If he had made further application to the Advisory Committee it would have been ascertained that the money could only be for the purpose of carrying on further the war against Turkey.
§ House adjourned during pleasure.
§ House resumed.