§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack will remember that three weeks ago I asked him a Question as to the date on which the Government proposed to introduce in this House the Resolutions dealing with House of Lords reform. He then said, expressing, I think, the very general feeling of your Lordships, that it would be agreeable if these Resolutions could be moved by the noble Marquess who leads the House. Unfortunately, his health lately has been indifferent. The noble and learned Viscount also told your Lordships that although some postponement was advisable in view of the circumstances, he considered 973 that the Resolutions might be brought before your Lordships' notice by the end of June or the beginning of July. I have obtained the Lord Chancellor's permission to ask him whether he can now give us any further information as to the date on which these Resolutions will be introduced.
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, when I answered the Question of the noble Marquess a few weeks ago I had consulted some of my colleagues, but had not had the opportunity of discussing the matter with the noble Marquess who leads the House. It would, undoubtedly, be a great misfortune if it became necessary for these Resolutions to be moved by anyone but the noble Marquess. Not only is it convenient that proposals dealing with the constitution and political functions of this House should be moved by the one who leads it, but the noble Marquess has given a degree of personal attention to, and bestowed an amount of industry upon, this question, which would really astonish those of your Lordships who know how busily he has been engaged for months and years in the foreign affairs of this country. I do not merely use the language of compliment when I say that I know of no noble Lord who sits in this House who can move these Resolutions with anything like tie authority and knowledge that the noble Marquess can employ.
As to the date: When I answered the noble Marquess on the last occasion I said the Government hoped to be able to move these Resolutions either in the last week of June or, at the latest, in the first week of July. Since I made that announcement we have been in communication with the noble Marquess, and he now informs us that he does not think it is too sanguine a hope to say that he may be in his place in this House, at the latest, about July 15, in order to move them. We are entirely in your Lordships' hands in this matter. If you think that the assurance which I gave three weeks ago, or the statement that we hoped to move these Resolutions in the first week in July, is imperfectly redeemed by the presence of the noble Marquess by July 15, it will be respectfully considered by the Government. I hope, however, that your Lordships will be unwilling to deny to the noble Marquess, who has suffered so severely from ill-health in the last few weeks, the satisfaction of feeling that all the labour and time he has bestowed on this 974 question is not thrown away, so far as his own personal explanation is concerned.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWEMy Lords, I feel sure that everyone will share the view of the noble and learned Viscount that if it is possible for the noble Marquess who leads the House to be present to introduce these Resolutions himself the House will gain greatly by his exposition of the subject. I can bear out what the Lord Chancellor has said with regard to the personal devotion paid to this question by the noble Marquess. He has given a great deal of time to it, as I have every reason to know, although, as the Lord Chancellor has said, his ordinary duties at the Foreign Office have allowed him very little leisure. It certainly would be a great disappointment to the noble Marquess, and to myself, if he were not present to state his case in his own way, as he has presided over the Government Committee which has been considering this matter in full detail.
Something, of course, depends upon the date at which the Government hope to conclude this session. Obviously, it would be a great misfortune and unworthy of this House if the subject of our future were not given the fullest consideration possible. I am sure—no one will agree more readily than the Government—that these Resolutions must have full and careful examination and discussion, with sufficient leisure after they are placed on the Table for noble Lords to study them thoroughly, and thus be able to state their views on this supremely difficult subject. Something also depends upon whether the House is likely to meet again in the autumn. We see in the public Press that there is every probability that the measures relating to Ireland may compel Parliament to meet in the autumn. I do not expect the Government to say anything about that now, but the prospect of something being done in pursuance of the Resolutions, in whatever form they may be passed and in whatever form the Government may decide to pursue the subject, is, of course, of great importance. No one can imagine that these Resolutions are to be a mere academic expression of opinion on the part of your Lordships' House. I assume it is intended that they shall be translated into legislative form as soon as possible. It is not, in my judgment, possible to say more at this moment.
We are glad to know that there is a prospect of the noble Marquess being 975 restored to sufficient health to enable him to carry out this duty about the middle of July. It is so important that the noble Marquess should be here himself that I should be unwilling to see this duty entrusted even to the very competent hands of the Lord Chancellor, or to the noble Earl (the Earl of Balfour) whose presence in this House, I hope he will allow me to say, gives me personally, as to all noble Lords, so much pleasure.
§ THE EARL OF SELBORNEMy Lords, nobody knows better than I do how great are the labour and time which the noble Marquess who leads this House has given to this subject, and I entirely join with the noble Marquess who has just spoken and the other speakers, in saying how very sorry I should be if he were not able himself to introduce these Resolutions to your Lordships' notice. I cannot, however, go quite so far as I understand my noble friend who has just sat down to have gone. It seems to me to be of almost imperative importance that these Resolutions should be placed before your Lordships' House in time for ample discussion during the course of this session, and if, most unfortunately, my noble friends health is not sufficiently restored by July 13 I hope it follows, from what the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack has said, that he or some other member of His Majesty's Government will then introduce the Resolutions in the place of my noble friend, the Leader of the House. I will ask the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack that Question in the first instance.
There is another point to which I wish to draw his attention. I am not aware whether he saw in the public Press this morning a statement by Mr. Austen Chamberlain in another place—I do not know whether he was accurately reported or not—to the effect that he was afraid an autumn session could not be avoided, and that if an autumn session became necessary he would take care that Parliament adjourned early in July.
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORI do not think that was accurately reported.
§ THE EARL OF SELBORNEThen I merely draw my noble and learned friend's attention to that, and point out that it would be a very sorry conclusion to our friendly negotiations on this subject if we 976 were to look forward to a debate on July 13 and Parliament adjourned a day or two afterwards.
§ VISCOUNT HALDANEMy Lords, before the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack answers there is one other observation which I should like to make. If it be the sense of the House, which appears to be probable, that we should desire to wait until July 13 before taking this discussion, I wish to observe that it is impossible that a satisfactory discussion could be concluded within the time mentioned. It would, therefore, be better, in order that time may not be lost, to have some definite understanding as to how the discussion is to progress. If, at the conclusion of his speech, the noble Marquess who leads the House could lay the Resolutions on the Table, then we should be in a position to discuss them, and it is possible that it might, suit your Lordships' convenience to resume the discussion on Monday, July 17. That would give time to study the Resolutions before proceeding to a debate. I wish to point out that I know of no questions that are likely to present larger problems of principle as well as of detail—those of detail no less important than those of principle—than these Resolutions. To think of discussing them at a single sitting, and at a first hearing, seems to me absurd. We might, therefore, definitely say that Monday, July 17, should be consecrated to the consideration of what the noble Marquess has laid before the House, in the full knowledge of that of which it consists. I would ask the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack whether he can throw any light upon that point.
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, if I may deal first with some observations which fell from Lord Selborne, it is most assuredly the view of the Government that your Lordships should be allowed the most ample time in which to consider and reach a conclusion upon Resolutions which so deeply affect and modify the historic constitution of this House. Lord Selborne has uttered an apprehension that it might be the intention of the Government, in view of our obligations in the autumn in relation to Ireland, to adjourn early in July, and he thought that Mr. Chamberlain had made a statement to this effect in another place, yesterday. I read what Mr. Chamberlain said, and I certainly should be 977 astonished if he said that it was the intention of the Government to adjourn early in July. I did not so read that which he said. Indeed, we should, I think, with difficulty be acquitted of the charge of disingenuousness if, after the repeated postponements of this very important discussion, we invited your Lordships to attend here on July 14, and disappeared ourselves some days previously. It is, of course, the desire of the Government that this matter should be most adequately discussed.
It must be clear, as Mr. Chamberlain pointed out in another place yesterday, that it will be necessary for us to meet in the autumn. In those circumstances, what is contemplated is that there should be a full preliminary and general discussion of the important matters which will be presented in these Resolutions, and then the subject can be exhaustively resumed in the autumn, in the interval of such discussion as becomes necessary in this House upon Irish affairs, and, if and when a conclusion is reached, as I hope it will be reached, as to the steps proper to be taken, and the date of such steps, in order to give effect to those Resolutions, if and when the Resolutions are adopted by your Lordships, those steps can be effectively taken when the House meets in the autumn. I think I have dealt with all the points which noble Lords have raised.
§ THE EARL OF SELBORNEMy Lords, I asked another Question. If my noble friend were, unfortunately, prevented from coming here on the date named, July 15, may I take it that some other member of the Government would introduce the Resolutions?
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORI think the noble Earl may certainly assume that I or one of my noble friends will undertake, however inadequately by comparison, that task, but I know the noble Earl would not wish to tie us pedantically, for instance, to a single day, supposing that the noble Marquess said quite definitely that he would be present on Monday.
§ VISCOUNT HALDANEIt will be more days than one?
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORCertainly.