HL Deb 27 July 1922 vol 51 cc888-91

Order of the Day read for the consideration of Commons Amendments to the Bill, which was returned yesterday agreed to, with Amendments.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (VISCOUNT PEEL)

My Lords. I beg to move that these Amendments be now considered.

Moved, That the Commons Amendments be now considered.—(Viscount Peel.)

LORD DYNEVOR

May I suggest to my noble friend that he should not take them to-day? They only came into our hands this morning, and there are ten pages of them. This Bill when it was in your Lordships' House raised a good deal of criticism, and I think a Division was taken on Second Reading. I therefore ask my noble friend that we should be allowed more time in which to consider these Amendments.

VISCOUNT PEEL

May I say, in response to my noble friend, that it is important that this Bill should be passed into law as soon as possible, because it is necessary that a great many activities of the Commissioners should be started. I will give my noble friend one or two reasons why I do not think your Lordships need necessarily delay the taking of these particular Amendments. I agree that they look rather formidable, but their appearance is much greater than the reality. Almost all of them are in the nature of drafting Amendments. There are a few which stiffen up some of the Amendments passed by your Lordships, but they are entirely consonant with the Amendments made by this House.

There is only one Amendment of any substance at all, and that is an alteration, and a slight alteration, in the Amendment with regard to the position of the power companies. This is a matter which, I understand, has received prolonged discussion. There was a point in connection with the Amendment which put a certain difficulty in the way of local authorities. That has been discussed between local authorities and the power companies, and the new clause now presented has been agreed upon by the power companies; in fact, it has been drafted in conference with them, so that there really is nothing in these Amendments to delay your Lord- ships. They are all either agreed or drafting Amendments, and I hope you will be good enough, as the matter is rather urgent, to allow me to proceed with them.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

My Lords, I have no reason to doubt that the Commons Amendments will have a smooth passage through your Lordships' House. I listened carefully to what the noble Viscount has said, and so far as I am aware—I have not yet had an opportunity of looking at them—there is no reason to suppose that there will be any great difficulty in considering them. But, I think that Lord Dynevor is entitled to have an opportunity of seeing the Amendments before he agrees to them, and I would suggest that if this stage is put off until Monday the noble, Viscount will find no difficulty with this House. I think that is only fair. I should not myself have asked him to put off the consideration of the Commons Amendments because, as far as I know, I have no objection to them—of course, it may be that between now and Monday some point may be drawn to my attention—but I think the request I have made is quite fair and reasonable.

VISCOUNT PEEL

It is very difficult to fit in these matters, and I had reserved an hour from other important duties in order to come down here this afternoon. There has been delay after delay in connection with this Bill. I adjourned the Bill for a long time after the Second Reading in order that your Lordships might deal with it; and again on the Committee stage there was delay. Now I am asked to delay the Bill further. I urge your Lordships not to ask me to defer the Bill to-day. You can, of course, insist upon it if you wish, but I assure you that there is nothing in the Amendments to which your Lordships could object. The Amendment to which I have referred is the only one in which there might be controversy; and that point has been settled.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

When were the Commons Amendments circulated?

VISCOUNT PEEL

This morning.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

I have no reason to object to the Amendments so far as I know, but in the interests of your Lordships it seems unreasonable that these pages of Amendments circulated this morning should be passed this afternoon. I assure the noble Viscount that there is no desire to put him to any inconvenience or delay the Bill. It is only the orderly business of the House, that interests me.

VISCOUNT PEEL

I hope your Lordships will excuse me if I am not able to be in my place on Monday afternoon. If you insist on delaying the Bill I shall, of course, give way, but I think it is wholly unnecessary as they are all drafting Amendments.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

My Lords, as the noble Viscount, says that the subject matter of the Amendments is so trifling and also that it will be very difficult for him to be in his place on Monday afternoon, surely it will not be difficult for him to find one of his skilled colleagues to undertake a statement of the arguments which, as I understand, are quite simple. In those circumstances, and as a strong wish has been expressed that the consideration of these Amendments should be postponed. I am sure the noble Viscount will agree that it is not unreasonable that the consideration of Amendments only circulated this afternoon should be postponed. Like the noble Marquess, Lord Salisbury. I know of nothing in the Amendments to which any objection need be raised, and as far as I am concerned I should be quite pleased to take them at once. But having regard to the ordinary practice of your Lordships' House when an objection of this kind is made it would be desirable if the noble Viscount would agree.

VISCOUNT PEEL

If your Lordships wish, I will, of course, agree. I have often been asked to postpone Bills in this way and I only hope that those noble Lords who have urged a postponement will be in their places on that day and be ready to discuss these Amendments. It has often happened that when your Lordships have urged a postponement I have missed the faces of those noble Lords who were deeply interested in the measure.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

I must really protest against the noble Viscount's remarks. He is an old member of this House, but lie has no right to lecture us. I am much more often in my place than is the noble Viscount.

VISCOUNT PEEL

I was not in the least addressing my observation to the noble Marquess.

Debate adjourned to Tuesday next.