§ LORD LAMINGTON had the following Notice on the Paper, To ask his Majesty's Government whether the telegram in The Times of July 27 is correct in saying that the Greek Government will not abandon her ties with Asia Minor; whether great 1028 distress does not prevail in the territories occupied by the Greeks; whether any financial assistance is being given by this country with the sanction of the Government; and, whether the permission given to Greek ships of war to pass through the Bosphorus was not a breach of that neutrality which the Government stated would be observed as between Greece and Turkey.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, the question in my name is rather prophetic of a step which has been taken in the last few days—a very bold step taken by the Greek Government, in asking that they should be allowed to march to Constantinople. From the reply of the Government I am very glad to see that a strong remonstrance has been addressed by the Allied Powers to Greece, and that they have pointed out that serious consequences would ensue if Greece persisted in her desire. Personally, I should have liked a stronger course to be taken. The simpler course would have been to state that our ships would blockade her ports. What I have said covers the first part of my Question, and I hope I shall get in the reply some information as to what is taking place. Events have been moving pretty rapidly, and it is to be hoped that the Government will show that they do not intend that any further affront should be placed on Turkey.
§ The second portion of my Question refers to the condition of the people who are living in Asia Minor and elsewhere under Greek occupation. I know it is the general view that Turkey's rule is absolutely barbaric, and that nothing but cruelties result. I think that if any attempt at all were made to ascertain the truth it would be realised that that view was incorrect. Notable statements have been made by various people showing that what the Turks have suffered at the hands of the Greeks has been quite as bad as any treatment which has been inflicted upon the Greeks by the Turks. We know that very great cruelties were inflicted on the absolutely innocent Moslem population living in Smyrna and the adjacent district in 1919. A Commission was appointed to inquire into that, and presented a Report, but we have never been allowed to see that Report. Other Reports have been made, one signed by representatives of the United States, France, ourselves, and Italy, who one and all condemned Greek action at that time.
1029
§
I have had personal word from people who were eye-witnesses of the ravages and horrors perpetrated by the Greeks, and within the last two or three days various documents have been sent to me to show that the Greeks have behaved with the greatest oppression and cruelty towards the Turkish inhabitants. The most notable evidence of all is in a book written by Mr Arnold Toynbee, who, I think I am right in saying, originally went out to those parts rather as a pro-Greek, if anything. I have only had time to dip into the book, but I came across this passage:
The atrocities have been revealed in their true light as crimes incidental to en abnormal process which all parties have committed in turn.
I should also like to know when the Commission of Inquiry which the Moslems, and particularly the Moslems of this country and India, desired some months ago should be sent to Asia Minor, is to be appointed. I do not know why it should have taken so long. I see that Mr. Lloyd George, in a statement made in another place, said that there had been difficulties with other Powers. It seems inconceivable that these massacres should be allowed to continue simply because the Powers cannot agree as to who should be on this Commission. There must be some other reason than that.
§ My next Question refers to the fact that we have broken the undertaking of neutrality which we made at the outset of these hostilities between Greece and Turkey. I am informed on fairly good authority that last year we certainly allowed arms to be supplied to Greece. But, whether that can be substantiated or not, it is a fact that we have been conniving at the giving of financial assistance to Greece. I brought up this matter some months ago, and the Government could not dispute that under the Trade (Facilities) Act Greece would be allowed to obtain some financial help. I do not, however, know what the present position is, and hence I have put this Question to the Government. I saw in the Press not very long ago that some money had been sent for so-called development in Macedonia. But once money is supplied to Greece in any form you cannot be sure that it will be earmarked for the specific purpose for which it is apparently going to be used.
§
I think it is time that the Government became alive to the monstrous state of affairs which has been allowed to continue
1030
ever since the Armistice. They have followed an absolutely indecisive policy, and they have never adhered to any given undertaking. The Prime Minister, in 1918, said:
Nor are we fighting … to deprive Turkey of its capital, or of the rich and renowned lands of Asia Minor which are predominantly Turkish in race … We do not challenge the maintenance of the Turkish race, with its capital at Constantinople.
I regard that as a pledge and so did millions of Moslems, more particularly the seventy millions of Moslems in India who had been fighting against their co-religionists, giving the best of their blood to help the Allied cause. They were getting anxious, and that declaration was made more or less to reassure them. Very recently we had a discussion here about a pledge. The noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack, in a forcible speech, said he had intended to give a pledge himself about the admission of Canadian cattle to this country, but I think he regretted that the Government had been committed by what was termed a pledge, but what, to my mind, was merely a declaration of policy—and, moreover, one which did not call for any corresponding obligation from the other party.
THE LORD CHANCELLORIs it the noble Lord's view that if a statement of intention, formally expressed, might properly be described as a declaration of policy, it may not be considered a pledge?
§ LORD LAMINGTONNot a pledge in the ordinary sense of the word.
§ LORD LAMINGTONThat, at all events, is my view. But this is a far stronger case. There was nothing given by Canada to us, but here is a case in which the Moslems have poured out their blood to fight out battles, and to reassure them you make the statement that their co-religionists will not be deprived of certain possessions and certain religious privileges. If the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack feels so strongly about pledges, I wish he would impress his views on the Government, and urge them to carry out, before it is too late, those promises which have been made to 1031 the Moslems throughout the world. If ever there were pledges given and not acted up to they were the pledges given to the Turks and the Arabs.
It was on March 26 last that the noble Marquess, Lord Curzon, issued a Memorandum stating that Greece would be given four months to clear out of Asia Minor. The four months have gone and the Greeks are still there. In the first part of my Question I ask whether it is true that "the Greek Government will not abandon her ties with Asia Minor." What is this will-o'-the-wisp policy? I have asked several people how they account for the fact that the Government connives at the support of the Greeks. You are not acting in harmony with your French Allies in the matter, and I am confident that you are doing no good to Greece. Greece herself would never for a moment have thought of this march on Constantinople, and she could not stay there a day, unless she had some moral if not direct support from us. We are only encouraging her in a most dangerous enterprise. I would again refer your Lordships to that very notable book by Mr. Toynbee in which he said that not only the Turks but the Greeks, too, watch every move and expect every help they can get from the Western nations. Our influence is so enormous all over the East, especially in the Near East, that it is essential that we should reassure the Moslem world that we are not further breaking our word. I beg to move.
THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (THE EARL OF CRAWFORD)My Lords, I must apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Lamington, in the first place for the absence of Lord Balfour. I cannot, I am afraid, go into the large questions of policy which the noble Lord has raised, but I can give general answers to the four Questions which he has placed on the Paper. As to the first, His Majesty's Government is not in a position to make any statement to the House as to what may or may not be the intentions of the Greek Government. As regards distress, the information naturally is not very specific, but it goes to show that there is no great distress prevailing in the territories occupied by the Greeks. At any rate, so far as information is in the possession of the Government, it would appear that the conditions in the Greek districts are better than those prevailing in the Turkish districts, though, naturally enough, in both 1032 districts, in fact over the whole country, suffering must exist owing to the continuance of a state of war.
§ LORD LAMINGTONWhen the noble Earl says "the Turkish districts," does lie mean in Asia Minor or in Europe?
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDNo; I mean the districts which were or are now occupied by the Greeks. I was not talking about ex-Turkish districts like Palestine, for instance: I was speaking in relation to Greek occupied territory. As regards the third Question, the answer is in the negative.
§ LORD LAMINGTONThere is no financial assistance?
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDThat is the financial question. Finally, as to the permission given for the passage of Greek ships of war through the Bosphorus, that passage was not a breach of neutrality. The noble Lord said on several occasions that we had broken our pledges, and when I invited an explanation it appeared to me that his definition of the word "neutrality" was of a decidedly oblique character. I certainly do not accept offhand the charge that this country has broken its pledges right and left as the noble Lord indicates. In any case it has been often stated, and I think it must be general property, that no special permission is required or is given for the passage of Greek ships of war through the Bosphorus. It does not involve any breach of Allied neutrality in regard to the Greco-Turkish conflict. The pre-war arrangements respecting the neutrality of the Straits were terminated by the passage of the "Goeben" and "Breslau" through the Dardanelles in 1914, and by the gratuitous entry of Turkey into the war against the Allies. Pending fresh international arrangements, the Straits are open to warships of all nations except in so far as this may be incompatible with the Armistice with Turkey of October, 1918.
The last question put by the noble Lord, Lord Lamington, related to the Commission of Inquiry, and I am afraid that without Notice he must excuse me from giving any reply. I am not in a position to make any statement on that subject.
§ LORD LAMINGTONMy Lords, I do not quite understand the position when it is said by the noble Earl that there was no breach of neutrality by the passage of 1033 Greek ships through the Bosphorus, both shores of which are at present I imagine distinctly Turkish. Certainly if there were not a High Commissioner and Allied Forces in Constantinople those ships of war would not have been allowed to pass. It may be considered that it is owing to the force, the latent force perhaps, at Constantinople that these ships of war have been allowed to go through to the Black Sea and to bombard Turkish towns. Even the Soviet Government, with which some members of His Majesty's Government want to open up friendly relations, protested very strongly indeed, as I understand from a French newspaper, against these ships of war going up the Bosphorus. There is a saying that might is right, but it is not enough to state that this act was not a breach of neutrality. I think it is a great pity indeed that ever that permission was accorded by His Majesty's Government.
§ Motion, by leave, withdrawn.