HL Deb 11 April 1922 vol 50 cc186-95

Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.

THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR AIR (LORD GORELL)

My Lords, in asking your Lordships to give a Second Reading to this Bill I am inviting you to address yourselves to a measure which is not only of extreme urgency but one which is being watched with anxiety, unfortunately, by many hundreds of thousands of people. It is probably impossible for any one who has not himself experienced it to visualise the anxiety of those who find it difficult to obtain employment and do not know from day to day where the next piece of work is coming from. The greatness of the problem is apparent to all, though it is not quite so great as it has been.

In the middle of last year there were over 2,000,000 unemployed, and over 1,000,000 on short time. The highest figure for unemployment was reached on June 10 last year when there was a total of 2,178,294 people wholly unemployed; the highest for those on short time was on May 27 last year, when the total was 1,186,680. The figures since that date have been falling. They are still enormously high, but there has been, if a slight fall, nevertheless a steady fall since then. The figures for the week ending March 20 of this year were 1,762,076 wholly unemployed, and 234,252 on short time. As showing that these figures are indicating a steady fall, I may mention that in the week ending March 27 there was a decrease in the number of those wholly unemployed of over 22,000. But the figures are still so great that they must be viewed with deep concern by every one.

This Bill is the fifth which your Lordships have been invited to consider since May, 1920, and it proves at any rate that whatever steps may have been taken to mitigate this great trouble Parliament has not been by any means inattentive to the evil. In May, 1920, there was passed an Act, which is referred to in this Bill as the principal Act, by which the number of persons insured was increased from 4,000,000 to 12,000,000. Owing to the slump in industry which took place in that summer it was obviously impracticable that the whole of this lately added number of 8,000,000 should come under the permanent provisions of the Bill, and it became necessary then to institute benefit in advance of contribution and to relax to sonic degree the normal rule of insurance.

I would like here to say one word as to nomenclature. There has grown up throughout the country the habit of referring to some of these unemployment benefits by the name of doles. This Bill, like all the Bills which preceded it, is based on the principle of insurance and not upon the principle of charity. But it has been necessary, owing to the vast numbers of the unemployed, to stretch the principle of insurance to some degree and to allow benefit in advance of contribution. The principal Act, passed in May, 1920, was followed in March of last year by an Act, referred to in the Bill as the No. 1 Act, which created two periods, called special periods, during which benefit might be drawn, and provided that sixteen weeks of benefit might be drawn in each of these periods. The first period was from March 3 to November 2 of last year; and the second from November 3 to July 2 of this year, a date to which I shall have again to refer later.

The Act referred to in the present Bill as the No. 2 Act, of 1921, was passed in July, 1921, giving power to increase the period for which benefit might be paid by six weeks, and at the same time it reduced the benefits to 15s. for men and 12s. for women. That again was followed by a short but useful Act known as the Unemployed Workers' Dependants (Temporary Provision) Act, which was passed in November last year. That provided an additional 5s. per week in respect of a wife, and 1s. per week in respect of each child of an insured unemployed man. It was to have effect for six months, and it expires on May 9 of this year. The unhappy struggle of last year in the coal industry had the effect of upsetting many of the calculations upon which these Bills had been based, and the revival of industrial prosperity has been slower than was at that time anticipated. It was hoped that for the period from June of this year to the end of June of next year there would not be more than 500,000 unemployed, but that hope has been falsified, and the numbers are now estimated at probably much in excess of that figure.

I come to the necessity for the present Bill, which is threefold. Under Acts No. 1 and No. 2, there can be a total of forty-four weeks' emergency or uncovenanted benefit drawn, which, in many cases, owing to the long unbroken periods of unemployment through which so many people are unhappily passing, was exhausted on April 5. Looking at those twenty-two weeks from the beginning of the second period for which Parliament provided, namely, November 3, we see that, without some further provision, there will be no means of providing for those who now find themselves out of employment and have exhausted their uncovenanted benefit. The second reason for this Bill is that, as I mentioned, the Unemployed Workers' Dependants Act comes to an end on May 9, and, unless sonic further provision is made, there will he no provision for the wives and children of insured unemployed people. The third reason is that on July 2 the second special period introduced by the No. 1 Act of last year comes to an end, and unless further provision is made, it will be necessary to fall back upon the normal procedure of the principal Act, as modified by the No. 1 Act. That is to say, emergency or uncovenanted benefit would lie replaced by the normal insured benefit of the principal Act.

In view of the very large amount of unemployment now prevailing, and certain, unhappily, still to prevail during the summer, it is not possible to contemplate merely going hack to that normal procedure. It would mean that to many hundreds of thousands of people there would be power to give benefit for only four weeks, and to large numbers for very little more, because under paragraph 3 of the second. Schedule of the principal Act, it is enacted that only one week's benefit can be given for six contributions, while under Section 2, subsection (1), of No. 1 Act, it is enacted that a person shall be credited with 25 contributions; consequently, those who have been out of employment for a considerable time and who had made no contributions themselves would be credited with twenty-five weeks, and would be entitled to four weeks' benefit and no more.

The present Bill provides, first of all, that the benefit and the rates of contribution shall remain at the present level. In the second place, it amalgamates the benefits under the Unemployed Workers' Dependants Act, that is 5s. for the wife, and 1s. in respect of each child. In the third place, it provides for two further special periods, the first of which, beginning on April 6, will come to an end on November 1, and during that period it is provided that unemployed insured persons will be entitled to fifteen weeks' benefit in three periods of five weeks, with a five weeks' gap between any two periods. The second special period—making the fourth, if we view all these Acts together—beginning on November 2, will continue until July 1 of next year, and during that time unemployed insured persons will be entitled to 12 weeks' benefit with two possible extensions of five weeks each in addition. In the fourth place, the Bill to which I am inviting your Lordships' attention provides that benefit can be paid to those persons who are now out of employment as front April 17. As I mentioned, benefit came to an end in respect of a very large number of persons on April 5, so that there will even now, after the passage of this Bill, be an interval of one and a half weeks. But if this Bill passes into law, payment will be recommenced as from April 17, and the first payment will be made, in accordance with the usual practice of the Ministry of Labour, on Friday, April 21.

So far as covenanted benefit is concerned, that is to say, benefit in respect of which persons have paid the required number of contributions, the conditions tinder which it will be granted remain unaffected by this Bill. They will be the conditions laid down by the principal Act of 1920, more especially in Sections 7 and 8. So far as the conditions in respect of which uncovenanted benefit will be paid are concerned, they will be the same as those which have prevailed during the extension of six weeks granted by the No. 2 Act of 1921. These have been stated in full in another place by the Minister of Labour in reply to a question, but they will naturally be of great interest to your Lordships, and I will briefly recapitulate them.

In the first place, it is for the Minister to say that he is satisfied that, having regard to all the circumstances of the ease, it is expedient to grant the benefit in the public interest. Secondly, the insured person must be, normally in employment such as would make him an employed person within the meaning of the Act of 1920, and he must be genuinely seeking whole-time employment, but unable to obtain it. Thirdly, it will not be granted to applicants who are not prepared to accept, on fair terms and conditions, work other than that to which they have been accustomed, but which they are reasonably capable of performing. Your Lordships will find one further condition in Clause 4, subsection (3), (c), in respect of the payment of contributions or employment in insured employment for a reasonable time in 1920. These conditions will, I hope, assure your Lordships that, so far as is possible, these benefits will be kept for those who are genuinely in need of them. So far as possible they will Le conserved to those who are genuinely unemployed, and every step will be taken to avoid payments to persons who might have found work but have not done so.

Now, I pass to the financial calculations upon which this Bill is based. First of all, the calculations have been made upon the assumption that unemployment will not exceed, on the average, up to the end of June of this year, a total of 1,900,000 persons, and that after June of this year the total will not exceed 1,500,000 persons —conservative and cautious estimates which may be falsified in either direction. One may hope the figures will be less, but, on the other hand, were there to be industrial disturbance they might again become larger. On that basis the Minister of Labour will provide in benefit, for the fifteen months from April of this year till June of next year, a total of £60,000,000.

It is estimated that total contributions will be found from employers and employees and the State, for this period, of about £56,000,000, and taking off 12½ per cent. for expenses, £49,000,000 falls available for benefits. Powers are being taken under this Bill to increase the Minister's borrowing powers by £11,000,000, and it is estimated that the total contribution of the State for these benefits will be the sum of £14,700,000, which is £5,800,000 in excess of its liabilities under existing legislation. These are heavy figures, but they are to meet a very great emergency, and no alternative is before the Government but to ask your Lordships to pass such a measure. Your Lordships will probably be aware that the Government have endeavoured to mitigate unemployment in many other directions, with which I need not trouble your Lordships.

I have only to say that this Bill contains nothing which can, in any way, hamper freedom of action in the building up of a permanent scheme of unemployment insurance in the future; that there will be, as soon as possible, a return to the basic principle of insurance, that contributions will be demanded in return for benefit. This is a Bill to meet the situation, as far as it can be visualised, up to July, 1923. I hope I have been able to explain the cost and general provisions, and above all the urgency with which this Bill is now awaited. I have only to say further that it is purely a Bill to meet the situation with which the country is confronted to-day, with this great burden of unemployment upon it.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Gorell.)

On Question, Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), it was moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Gorell.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]

Clauses 1 to 9 agreed to.

Clause 10:

Nursing to be on exempted employment.

10.—(1) Part TT of the First Schedule to the principal Act shall have effect as though there were inserted therein after paragraph (b) the following new paragraph— (bb) Employment as a female professional nurse for the sick or as a female probationer undergoing training for employment as such a nurse.

(2) This section shall conic into operation on the first day of July, nineteen hundred and twenty-two.

LORD GORELL moved, at the end of subsection (1), to insert the following new subsections:— (2) When, as the result of the formation of any company or of the amalgamation of any companies, or of any other like process, any person, company or body of persons is succeeded by a company or body as employer in any business or undertaking, the Minister may, in determining for the purposes of the provisions of paragraph (d) of Part II of the First Schedule to the principal Act what is the normal practice of the employer or whether a person has completed three years' service in the employment, treat the normal practice of the old employer as being the normal practice of the new employer and treat any service under the old employer as being service under the new employer. (3) Any certificate with respect to employment in the service of a railway company or joint committee of two or more such companies given by the Minister under paragraph (d) of Part II of the First Schedule to the principal Act, as amended by Act No. 1 of 1921, at any time before the first day of July, nineteen hundred and twenty-two, shall, if the conditions on which it was given so long remain unchanged continue in force for a period of five years from the first day of July, nineteen hundred and twenty-two, notwithstanding anything therein to the contrary.

The noble Lord said: The first of these subsections is moved in order to meet the case where a man is really in permanent employment, but his employer changes. Under the present conditions governing the issue of a certificate of exemption the man must have been in the permanent employment of an employer for three years, but where the employer changes, but not the employment, there is technically a change, and this new subsection (2) is proposed in order to meet that case. Subsection (3) on the Amendment Paper is included in consequence of an undertaking given by the Ministry of Labour in another place, that if agreement could be reached in respect of the employees of railway companies, he would do his best to insert it in the Bill. Under the present system certificates of exemption are provisional and expire on July 1. Under this provision they will remain in force, provided the conditions remain unchanged, for a period of five years.

Amendment moved— Page 7, line 44, at end insert the said new subscetions.—(Lord Gorell.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD GORELL

My next Amendment is drafting.

Amendment moved— Page 8, line 1, leave out 1("(2)") and insert ("(4) Subsection (1) of").—(Lord Gorall.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 10, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 11:

Legal proceedings.

11.—(1) The wife or husband of a person charged with art offence under the principal Act as amended by any subsequent enactment may be called as a witness either for the prosecution or defence and without the consent of the person charged.

(2) Subsection (1) of section twenty-two of the principal Act, which provides that a person who for the purpose of obtaining benefit or for certain other purposes knowingly makes any false statement or false representation shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, shall have effect as though six months were therein substituted for three months.

THE EARL OF MALMESBURY moved to leave out subsection (2). The noble Earl said: I will detain your Lordships but a very few moments in explaining the object of my Amendment. Those of your Lordships who have read this Bill, and who are familiar with the contents of this subsection, will notice that it increases the period for which a man may be imprisoned for making a false statement from three to six months, and many of your Lordships may have thought that I was anxious to mitigate the punishment instead of increasing it. Far from that, exactly the reverse is my intention. I think your Lordships will agree with me that in the past there have been far too many successful attempts to obtain doles in this way.

But there is a legal question, and it is this. If this subsection, which I propose to leave out, remains in the Bill an individual who might receive the maximum penalty of six months' imprisonment would be entitled to appeal to Quarter Sessions, because under the Summary Jurisdiction Act, 1879, if the imprisonment exceed three months the person sentenced may appeal. Therefore, if this Bill is allowed to pass with this subsection in it, we might find many of these offenders appealing to Quarter Sessions, and an enormous amount of work would thereby be thrown upon these Courts. Not only will that be the case, but. at Quarter Sessions these offenders will be much more likely to get off by making a sentimental and touching appeal to a jury. Your Lordships may make the objection that the case may be a very serious one, but in any event, if such a serious case arises, and the Court of summary jurisdiction thinks it of such a nature that it should not be dealt with there and then, that case can he dealt with under the ordinary law.

There is another advantage in omitting this subsection—namely, that a great deal of time will be saved, justice will be expedited, and—what is a very important consideration—a great deal of unnecessary expense to the public will be avoided. If these offenders go to Quarter Sessions the public will have to be represented by counsel, and all the legal expenses will have to be paid out of the public purse. Some of your Lordships may ask: "Are we going to take the right of appeal from an offender who is thus convicted, if he thinks lie has a just case, and has not been properly dealt with?" Your Lordships need have no anxiety on those grounds, because, as you are no doubt well aware, the right of appeal from a conviction before a Court of summary jurisdiction to Quarter Sessions would not be affected at all. Under the Criminal Justice Administration Act, 1914, any individual who thought he was aggrieved or thought he had suffered a hardship before a Court of summary jurisdiction would have all the benefits of that Act. In the principal Act, the Act of 1920, I believe that where an individual makes a false statement for the purpose of deriving benefit under that Act he may receive a maximum penalty of three months' imprisonment for each false statement made. I think I am correct therefore in saying that, supposing an individual drew benefit for a week, that is to say, six days' benefit, and that that necessitated his making a false statement each day, he would be liable to receive eighteen months' imprisonment, and I hope the Bench would convict him to the full extent. I trust the Government, in the interests of the public, will accept this Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 8, lines 8 to 14, leave out subsection (2). —(The Earl of Malmesbury.)

LORD GORELL

This provision was originally inserted in order to bring the Bill into line with the provisions of the Unemployed Workers' Dependants Act, hut there is no doubt considerable force in the argument which the noble Earl has offered, and I am prepared to accept the Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 11, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 12 to 15 agreed to.

Clause 16:

Construction, saving, short title, commencement, and duration.

(5) This Act shall not apply to Ireland except in so far as the provisions thereof may be applied to Ireland by Order in Council made under the Irish Free State (Agreement) Act, 1922.

(8) This Act shall come into operation on the sixth day of April, nineteen hundred and twenty-two.

LORD GORELL

The remaining Amendments are really drafting.

Amendments moved—

Page 11, lines 19 to 22, leave out subsection (5) and insert as a new subsection: ("(5) Provision may be made by Order in Council under the Irish Free State (Agreement) Act, 1922, for applying this Act, with or without modifications, to Ireland, exclusive of Northern Ireland, but except in so far as it is so applied this Act shall not apply to Ireland") Page 11, line 31, after ("shall") insert. ("except as therein otherwise expressly provided, be deemed to have").—(Lord Gorell.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 16, as amended, agreed to.

Schedules agreed to.

Amendments reported (according to Order): Bill read 3a, and passed, and returned to the Commons.