LORD RAGLANMy Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government—(1) Whether the Rutenberg scheme has been examined on the ground by any disinterested expert; (2) whether the owners and occupiers of the lands affected will be given the opportunity of stating a case before an impartial tribunal; (3) whether provision has been made for the safeguarding of Christian and Moslem religious sites.
In venturing to draw your Lordships' attention a second time to the Rutenberg scheme, I should like, first of all, to say that I spent two years in or near the area of the scheme, and am pretty well acquainted with the ground. The area is on the borders of Palestine, Trans-Jordania, and French Syria, and is a particularly difficult and turbulent region. How much of it is to be handed over to Mr. Rutenberg as a first instalment is not clear, but the area has never been properly surveyed either by Mr. Rutenberg or by anybody else. I have had considerable experience of land disputes in that area. The demand for land is keen; and disputes are constantly arising, and they not infrequently lead to bloodshed. It seems to me to be very important that any Arabs who are to be dispossessed under this scheme should have an opportunity of bringing their case before a tribunal in which they have the fullest confidence. In addition to Capernaum and other Christian sites, the area contains the tombs of three Companions of the Prophet and a number of other Moslem 24 Saints. These are held very sacred, and some of them are the objects of pilgrimage.
In my humble opinion, the only chance of carrying the scheme out without causing serious trouble is to convince all the Arabs concerned that their interests lie in supporting the scheme. Unfortunately, it appears from the answer given me by the noble Duke the other day that this has not been clone, and the opinion has been allowed to gain ground that the scheme is merely a stratagem to enable the Jews to gain possession of Arab lands. The opposition to Zionism is chiefly due to the terror which is felt by Palestinians of being dispossessed of their land in favour of the Jews, and the danger is that they will regard this scheme as the first step in such an expropriation.
THE DUKE OF SUTHERLANDMy Lords, the reply to the first part of the noble Lord's Question is in the negative. Large scale maps of the area affected already exist, and when Mr. Rutenberg first submitted his scheme to the Palestine Government he submitted with it detailed plans and masses of geographical and meteorological data. It is on the basis of these data that any examination of the merits of the scheme must be based. The mere examination of the ground will add little or nothing to them. The whole scheme has been examined with the greatest care by the Departments of the Palestine Government which are particularly concerned and also by the technical advisers of the Secretary of State for the Colonies in this country, and it is generally agreed that from an engineering point of view the scheme is thoroughly sound.
As regards the second part of the noble Lord's Question, it is laid down in the draft concession that in cases where land is required for the purposes of the scheme it shall be expropriated by the Government in accordance with the local law of expropriation. That law provides that in cases where the parties have failed to arrive at agreement the matter shall be submitted to the arbitration of arbitrators appointed by the local district courts, from a panel selected by the Governor of the district. There is a right of appeal by either party to the supreme Court of Palestine.
As to the third Question, regarding the provision made for the safeguarding of Christian and Moslem religious sites, as 25 far as I am aware no religious sites are affected. All the plans have, however, by the terms of the concession, to be submitted to the High Commissioner before execution, and the noble Lord may rest assured that every care will be taken to prevent any infringement of any religious sites whatever.
§ EARL STANHOPEI hope the Government will be able to give us more information before the scheme goes much further. I understand that the land has not been surveyed by any representative of the Government of Palestine.
THE DUKE OF SUTHERLANDI said it was not surveyed by anybody who is a disinterested expert, but the scheme has been laid before the Government and has been gone into by Government experts.
§ EARL STANHOPEI understand that it has not been gone into on the ground.