CHARTERED ASSOCIATIONS (PROTECTION OE NAMES AND UNIFORMS) BILL. [H.L.] (Hansard, 4 April 1922)

§ VISCOUNT BURNHAM
My Lords, in pursuance of a suggestion made during the Second Reading debate I have put down an Amendment on the Paper which secures the general assent and approval of those who are concerned in this measure. Four drafting Amendments have been suggested by the Minister, three of which refer to mere numerals. I am glad to say that a complete agreement has been arrived at in respect of this measure which will, I hope, facilitate its passage in another place.
The principal organisation which considered that its interests might be in danger and sought relief in some amendment of the Bill—the Salvation Army—now professes itself completely satisfied. A meeting took place between General Bramwell Booth and Sir Robert Baden-Powell, the Chief Scout, and articles of agreement were drawn up 1062 which were embodied in the form of letters which have passed between them; therefore, no opposition is to be feared from that great and important body. The Bill will pass unopposed if your Lordships accept the Amendment which is to be proposed and which gives any particular society that may consider itself aggrieved the power of appealing to the Secretary of State—in this case it is the Secretary of State for the Home Department—who will hear the objection and decide, having due regard to past use. I beg to move that the Bill be read a third time.

§ LORD ASKWITH
My Lords, I endorse what the noble Viscount has said in regard to this Bill. We met in conference, I as representing the Salvation Army. Since then I have had a letter from Mr. Commissioner Kitching, the able lieutenant of General Bramwell Booth, in which he says that Sir Robert Baden-Powell has called upon the General and has given him the most hearty assurance as to the friendliness of the Boy Scout Association authorities towards our Life Saving Scouts, and has also convinced the General that there is no thought of their taking any action which would be likely to prejudice us or our work either now or in the future. In view of this fact and the advice which you gave us … the General has decided not to take any steps to oppose the measure with this proposed Amendment. And General Baden-Powell has written to General Bramwell Booth as follows:— We know the aims and methods of the Salvation Army as being above question and we have no intention, therefore, of taking any steps against your organisation. Quits the contrary; we are anxious to work in friendly co-operation, and only hope that as we get to know each other better local branches will work side by side in the most friendly spirit, more especially as the Boy Scout movement like the Salvation Army is now established in every civilised country in the world. I am sure your Lordships will endorse that view. These great associations are working at a time when it is difficult to get sufficient means to carry on their work in bringing up the youth of the world, both lads and lasses, in morals, conduct and character.

§ VISCOUNT HALDANE
My Lords, I too have been in communication with the Salvation Army and with General Bramwell Booth and I agree with what has just been said. I think this agreement, resulting 1063 from friendly communications between General Booth and General Baden-Powell, gives some assistance to the Government in administering the discretion which they will have if the Amendment is accepted, and I think this is a good omen for the working of the Bill in the future.

§ LORD PARMOOR
My Lords, I have on the Paper an alternative Amendment to that which is to be proposed by the noble Viscount. I, too, had a communication from the Salvation Army that they were satisfied with the Amendment which Viscount Burnham has proposed. In fact, they came down to see me out of London in order to tell me that they had come to that arrangement. But there are several bodies besides the Salvation Army—I think twenty or more were represented when the matter was discussed—and I am not sure that all those bodies are satisfied in the same way as the Salvation Army. Certainly some of the bodies with whom I had communication are not equally satisfied. The difference between the Amendment which I propose and that of the noble Viscount is that in his Amendment the matter is really left to the Home Office, while in my Amendment it would have been settled once and for all by Parliament itself. I need hardly say, however, after what has been said by the noble Viscount, that I shall not press my Amendment as against his.

§ VISCOUNT BURNHAM
My Lords, I beg to move, in Clause 1, at the end of subsection (1), to insert the following new subsection:— (2) (i) An Order in Council under this section shall not be made unless notice of the application for an Order has been given in such manner and accompanied by such particulars as the Secretary of State may direct. (ii) The Secretary of State shall consider any objections to an Order which are made by, or on behalf of, any persons or societies affected, or likely to be affected, by the Order, and shall give special consideration to the existing user by any organisation of any name, designation, uniform or badge, on which it is proposed to confer protection. (iii) An Order in Council under this section shall be laid as soon as may be before both Houses of Parliament, and if an address is presented to His Majesty by either House of Parliament within the next subsequent twenty-one days on which that House has sat next after any such Order is laid before it, praying that the Order may be annulled, His Majesty in Council may annul the Order, and it shall thenceforth be void but without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done thereunder. (iv) Any Order in Council under this Act may be amended or revoked by a subsequent Order in Council.

§ VISCOUNT BURNHAM
My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass.