§ LORD ASKWITH rose to ask His Majesty's Government whether their attention had been called to the form of the questionnaires circulated by the International Labour Office at Geneva, and whether any steps will be taken to press for the establishment of the Advisory Committee in accordance with the unanimous resolution of the delegates at the International Labour Conference at Washington prior to the Conference proposed to be held at Geneva in November next, with a view to adequate and unbiassed proposals being placed Before the Conference for their consideration.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, the Conference referred to is one which is to be held at Geneva in October next. The reason for the Question is that at the Washington Conference in November, 1919, it was unanimously resolved that an Advisory Committee, on which the Governments, employers, and workers should be represented, should be appointed without delay to keep in touch with the working of the Health Section of the International Labour Organisation. On November 30 last, and again on December 6, I asked a Question as to whether this Advisory 68 Committee had been appointed, and received from the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, then in charge of the Bill under discussion, a negative answer, which, I thought, was unsatisfactory. My noble friend will know the importance of such an Advisory Committee by the assistance he got from British members of the Conference in connection with the Women and Young Persons (Employment in Lead Processes) Act.
§ I do not know whether any steps have been taken for the appointment of this Advisory Committee, but since the establishment of the Health Section of the International Labour Conference about October last that Section, without an Advisory Committee, has been selecting the subjects which are to be debated in October next, and also studying those subjects and producing certain questionnaires. They are contained in three little red books, and relate to anthrax, agriculture, and white lead— all matters of importance to this country. On anthrax the questionnaires are rather doubtful. They are evidently impressed by the fact that at Washington it was discovered that the Indian Government had been dealing in the most elaborate manner with anthrax.
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On agriculture they have introduced into this little red book a vast number of questions, with very slight matter upon which those questions can really be founded. Some suggest, and bring forward as important, matters of very doubtful value to this country. For instance, with regard to agricultural labour they suggest that the agreement drawn up in Denmark in 1920 might be adopted with advantage. This agreement provides that—
In all small enterprises where a single man is employed as herdsman he must be provided with a room for his sole use. In larger enterprises one room must be provided by the farmer for every three unmarried labourers provided with accommodation This room must be sanitary, properly cleaned, warmed and lighted, and provided with a table, chair, washstand and bed for each occupant. Clean sheets must be provided at least once a month; clean towels once a week. It is also laid down that the farmhouse shall include a comfortable room in which the labourers can spend their leisure hours, and which shall be heated and lighted during the cold weather.
The manner in which building improvements and additions arc to be met is, it is suggested, by Government credit, and by guarantees to the farmers that all expenses will afterwards be paid. That may
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be suitable for Denmark, but it is wholly inapplicable to this country. It would entail a vast expenditure, various Bills, and many inspectors, and I doubt whether the country would stand it.
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The worst form of these questionnaires relates to white lead. A small book has been prepared and sent round with a questionnaire at the end, in which it says—
In view of the fact that it is now technically possible to replace while lead in painting by efficient substitutes arc you of opinion that a draft convention prohibiting the use of white lead in painting should be submitted to the Conference?
That question assumes that it is now technically possible to replace white lead in painting by efficient substitutes. I have no hesitation in saying that the assumption is entirely incorrect, and the whole of the little book is an argument in favour of the use of Zine; white instead of white lead in painting. Zine white is a product of which Belgium and Germany — Germany is represented on this International Bureau although not on the League of Nations — have the control. White lead on the coif rare is a matter of the utmost importance to the British Empire.
§ Of the metallic lead which is produced in the British Empire, 20 per cent, is used for making white lead, and of that white lead 85 per cent. is used in painting. If in the interlocking of industries this lead industry were prohibited as is suggested, you would have the shutting down of mines, possibly of mines as important to the British Empire as the Broken Hill or the mines in Burma, where white lead is the chief product and where the by-products, which would not otherwise be produced, are such things as silver and zine— though zine is not the chief product as it is of the German mines.
§ The Chamber of Commerce of London have made a strong protest against the method of these questionnaires. They wrote to this Labour Bureau and received an answer in which they were told that' no partiality had been shown. It was added that the Bureau had pursued the study of the different questions contained in the agenda of the coming Conference with the widest possible outlook and having regard to opinions enunciated by the persons and groups most competent to deal with the subject., and so intimated that the London Chamber of Commerce were a body 70 that were not particularly competent to deal with this matter. This question is of considerable importance as a matter of principle. We hear of various attacks upon officials in this country, hut if our great trade interests are to be dealt with by officials in a foreign bureau, and a body like the London Chamber of Commerce has been practically told to manage its own business, it becomes a very serious matter. There is a question, I understand, as to whether the Preamble of Part X111 of the Treaty of Peace, or the actual words of the Treaty of Peace, are to govern the dealings of this particular section of the bureaucracy at Geneva whether they are to receive direction or whether they are to act "off their ONVH hat." It is of great importance for this country that His Majesty's Government should see that proper control is held over them, and therefore I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name.
THE. EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, the Question which my noble friend has put to me falls into two parts. The first regards the questionnaire and the second concerns the Advisory Committee. In reply to the first part, I can inform him that His Majesty's Government have received the questionnaires circulated by the International Labour Office at Geneva, including those that he has mentioned, and another one concerning the weekly rest-day which I do not think he mentioned, but I have it here if he cares to see it. I should explain quite clearly— because what the noble Lord has said goes to show that there may be some misapprehension on this point— that the responsibility for the form of these questionnaires rests entirely with the International Labour Office. The questionnaires are issued lo the various Governments of States which are members of the League of Nations and of the International Labour Organisation with a view to ascertaining from them information from which the International Labour Office can submit considered reports and proposals or draft recommendations to the International Labour Conference, the next meeting of which is fixed for October of this year.
Each of these, questionnaires consists in the first place of the explanatory memorandum to which my noble friend referred, intended to summarise the existing position as it is viewed by the International Labour Office. The second part consists of a questionnaire addressed to the Govern 71 ments concerned. Then the Government, at the same time as replying to the questionnaire and answering questions contained on the last page of these books, will call the attention of the Labour Office to any points resulting from investigations or experiments by which the memorandum can be supplemented or corrected, or any inaccuracies or omissions remedied, and the, matter brought to the notice of the International Office.
I come to the second part of the noble Lord's Question, which deals with the establishment of an Advisory Committee. The responsibility for the establishment of such a Committee, in the same way as the responsibility for the issue of these questionnaires, rests entirely with the International Labour Office. As regards its constitution, I understand that at a recent meeting of the governing body of the International Labour Office it was decided to form such a Committee. The functions of that Committee would be to deal with any fresh question in which the governing body felt they required advice or assistance. I should, however, point out, in case it may not be quite clear, that the function of this Committee is to be purely advisory, and it is for the Labour Office to decide upon what matters to consult it. It was never intended or understood that any action would be taken by the. Labour Office without first submitting the matter to the consideration of this Advisory Committee.
With regard to both the points raised by the noble Lord I may draw his attention to Article 393 of the Treaty of Peace, which lays down the constitution of the International Labour Office. The governing body of that Office consists of twenty-four persons, twelve representing the respective Governments, six the employers, and six the workers. The employers' representatives include a representative of British employers, and therefore they have an opportunity of bringing their views before the governing body directly and of making any representations in regard to matters undertaken by that Office which they may think fit. I think that is the explanation of the two parts of the Question which the noble Lord has raised.
§ LORD ASKWITHDo I understand that the British representatives have any part in issuing these questionnaires?
THE EARL OF ONSLOWThese questionnaires are issued by the International Labour Office I could not answer the question whether any British representative has been concerned in drafting them. The matter is entirely in the hands of the International Labour Office, and not of the British Government.
§ [From Minutes of April 26.]