WOMEN AND YOUNG PERSONS (EMPLOYMENT IN LEAD PROCESSES) BILL. (Hansard, 18 November 1920)

THE CIVIL LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (THE EARL OF ONSLOW)

My Lords, this is a very short Bill to give effect to certain recommendations adopted by the International Labour Conference which met at Washington in November last under Part XIII of the Treaty of Peace. Under Article 405 of that Treaty each Government is required to bring the recommendation adopted by the Labour Conference before Parliament for action, and among those recommendations are those in the Schedule of this Bill which deal with lead processes. The recommendations do not set up a maximum standard, but they lay down a minimum standard which every country should at least attain. This, however, does not prevent any country from imposing a higher standard than the minimum laid down here. The Bill of 332 which I move the Second Reading carries out the full recommendations, but so far as this country is concerned we are complying, and more than complying, already with the recommendations in all the important lead industries. It is, however, necessary that we should pass the Bill as soon as possible in order to carry out our obligations to the Labour Organisation of the League of Nations.

Turning for a moment to the clauses I may point out that Clause 1 of the Bill prohibits the employment of women and young persons under eighteen in certain processes involving the use of lead which is specially dangerous. In some of the processes mentioned—for example, the manufacture of white lead and of electric accumulators—the employment of women and young persons is already prohibited by Home Office Regulations. In others there is very little employment of women and young persons at present, and therefore the clause will not make any considerable alteration in the existing arrangements of the industry.

Clause 2 prescribes certain precautions which must be observed in lead processes when women and young persons are employed. These precautions follow the methods which have been adopted in this country for many years in regard to all the important industries. There is a number of industries, mostly minor industries, which have not yet been brought under Regulations—for example, those in which lead paints are used—and it is desirable that the precautions should be extended to them. I do not think I need say anything on Clause 3, which is an amendment of the former Act. The penal clause, Clause 4, and the other clauses are merely formal.

§ LORD ASKWITH

My Lords, I regret that the noble Earl has not indicated that the Government intend to propose any amendment of this Bill in Committee. It has come to us having passed through the House of Commons without amendment. The Bill is one of those instances of the danger of legislation being carried out word for word in the exact terms or almost the exact terms of a small Committee of Englishmen and persons from other countries, engaged in the turmoil of a Conference, without Acts of Parlia- 333 ment and without books before them, where they had to decide upon the course that legislation should follow in this and other countries. The legislation or the schemes that have been put into effect during the last few years have elaborated a system by which insoluble lead can be used practically without danger. It was stated at the Conference at Washington that there should be Advisory Committees before these Conferences took place which should collect information and bring up a well prepared proposal, so that the final Conference might endorse it. At Washington they passed a resolution suggesting "that an Advisory Committee on which Governments, employers, and the workers should all be represented, be appointed to act in an auxiliary capacity and keep in touch with the activities of the health department of the International Labour Office." I shall be glad to know from the noble Earl whether any such Committee has been appointed, because at the next Conference in March or April questions like anthrax and carbonic oxide poisoning will come up, and these will certainly require some previous investigation. Experience shows that previous investigation is necessary, because this Bill as drafted, in the wide terms in which it is drafted, would deal not only with soluble lead, with which it was the object of the Committee to deal, but also with insoluble lead silicate.

The whole essence of this lead poisoning lies in the presence of dust. About a score of years ago a Committee was appointed under the chairmanship of a member of your Lordships' House, the late Lord James of Hereford, and a as result there commenced a series of rules by which it was intended soluble lead poisoning should be stopped. The manufacturers put their heads together and found a method by which the presence of dust could be eliminated. The effect has been quite startling. With regard to such a trade as china and earthenware, in 1900 there were 200 cases of poisoning; in 1918, 11; while as to white lead poisoning, in 1899 there were 399 cases; in 1917, 17 cases; and in 1918, none. Doctor Legge, the Chief Inspector of Factories, has reported that "on the practical side little more is to be learned as to how lead poisoning is caused, and it can be taken as axiomatic that all risk lies in inhalation of dust and fume. These removed or prevented, there will be no lead posioning."

334 As drafted this Bill is so wide that it would prevent potters who have been using insoluble lead compound from pursuing a trade that they have been pursuing during the last ten years without any detriment. It would have effects, too, in an extraordinary way. It would prevent pouring varnish from one receptacle to another, where lead was used as a drier. It would also prevent girls using lead in matchmaking, and I am told that it would also prevent boys from being employed inputting lead into the heads of golf sticks. A wide definition of this character is, absolutely unnecessary. It does not fall in with the intention of the Committee which went into the matter, and goes beyond what the Conference could have intended. I hope before the next Conference that the Advisory Committee will be set up, and that proper steps may be taken so that legislation should not slip through without proper and due care. At this last Conference I hear that the question of anthrax came up and had to be withdrawn, when it was found that without the knowledge of those who were engaged in suggestions, for some period of months, if not years, the Indian Government had given great attention to this matter, and had studied it thoroughly, and that the delegates on the Committee at, the Conference knew nothing whatever about it. Before the next Conference the steps that should have been taken before this Conference might well be taken with regard to such cases of poisoning. I have a sheaf of Amendments, which I propose to put on the Paper.