LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) BILL, (Hansard, 28 May 1919)

§ VISCOUNT PEEL
My Lords, the object of the Bill is to apply the system of proportional representation to the election of all local authorities in Ireland—county councils, rural district councils, borough councils, urban councils, poor law unions, and town commissioners. Your Lordships will know that the system has worked very well in the case of Sligo, and owing to the peculiar political circumstances of Ireland it is thought desirable to extend the system to local authorities in that country. I do not know whether your Lordships take a great, interest in the details of local government in Ireland, but I may say that nearly all these clauses are merely ancillary to the general principle, and introduce as little change as possible. They only carry the general principle of the Bill into effect. Among other things, fresh areas have to be arranged; and they will be defined by the Local Government Board in Ireland, in order that the system may work fairly in the larger electoral areas.

THE EARL OF MAYO
My Lords, I am delighted to find that this Bill has reached your Lordships' House. It is an excellent one, and will give a chance for respectable people who really have a stake in the country to be represented on these local bodies. It is well known to us who live regularly in Ireland that a certain body of men, whom I call republicans, wore determined to capture the whole of the local bodies in Ireland if they possibly could. Under this Bill there is at all events a chance, by proportional representation, of respectable citizens, and I hope of loyal citizens, in Ireland being elected on these bodies. I therefore welcome the Bill with all my heart. I know that there is a feeling against it in Belfast, but in the South and West we appreciate the Bill immensely.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD BIRKENHEAD)
My Lords, as a very old supporter of proportional representation, may I be forgiven if I add a few observations. Like the noble Earl who has just spoken, whose contribution is very valuable having regard to what was said in another place, I welcome every application of the principle of proportional representation. I welcome it in municipal affairs and in national affairs, and I profoundly deplore that the most sagacious lead, as I think, given by your Lordships to another place in a much larger application a few months ago, was not accepted and adopted by them.
The observations made by the noble Earl who has just sat down will find an echo in many breasts, because there are many of us who have long since clearly reached the conclusion that our democratic institutions can not efficiently or even safely be worked unless we provide that the assemblies called together, whether municipal or national, are really accurate reflections of public opinion. There is no other method except proportional representation which can secure that result. Those of us wino are concerned that there should be the most exact obtainable correspondence between the assemblies which claim to represent, the people and the people they actually represent, will never cease our exertions until we have obtained, both in municipal and national institutions, the working of the only system which can secure that result—namely, proportional representation. As a small instalment, I welcome this Bill profoundly.

§ THE EARL OF SELBORNE
My Lords, it is with great pleasure that I have heard what the Lord Chancellor has said. Indeed I cannot but think that if he had not, most unfortunately, before the question of proportional representation became critical between the two Houses, been sent to America on State business, his influence might have led to a better judgment in another place; because I do not think that anybody who has dispassionately considered the proceedings of last year can think otherwise than this; that the House of Commons as a whole took a most narrow and short-sighted view of a, great public question, and that the Government took an attitude, first of all in this House and then in the House of Commons, which defied even the ingenuity and courage of: 895 my noble friend Lord Curzon adequately to defend and explain in this House. That the Government themselves now come forward with this extremely important contribution—with a proposal for the application of proportional representation to all matters of local government in Ireland—must be very gratifying to those like my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack, and to those who are proud to be associated with him in this matter in this House. That is all I have to say about this particular aspect, though it is a most important aspect of this Bill.
As I had the misfortune to be out of the House when the Second Reading of the Bill was moved by the Government, I should like to ask my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack what are the proposals of the Government with regard to future stages of this Bill. As he knows, I am the last person to be hostile to the principle of such a Bill as this, but I and my friends feel that it should be carefully considered by the House, and we are confident that it has been delayed many weeks in the House of Commons. Why is it suddenly brought up here with an intimation, after all this delay, that your Lordships are to have no opportunity adequately to consider it? Your Lordships are rather wont to be extremely complacent to the House of Commons in such matters, whenever there is a real public object to be served. You will always put public convenience before the private convenience of the House; but we are very jealous of the right of this House to give proper time to the consideration of such a Bill, and unless there is a reason for the demand which is obviously paramount, and a difficulty which could not be avoided in any other way, I do not think we are prepared to hustle this Bill through in a few hours.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
I do not dispute the general view put forward by the noble Earl that the delay in sending the Bill to your Lordships' House has been considerable and irritating, and it will be for your Lordships to consider what is the right course to adopt; but there are some considerations in that connection which ought to be borne in mind. The elections to which this Bill applies take place in Ireland on June 1. It is from every point of view most desirable that the corrective influence of this Bill should be exercised, if and when the elections take 896 place. One of the clauses of this Bill postpones those elections for a considerable period, and will avoid the taking of those elections in circumstances which certainly would not secure for the minority any representation at all, and would be followed by results which I think the noble Earl would agree would be very undesirable and of a mischievous character. I am not in the least demurring to the grievance, which the noble Earl states, as to the circumstances in and the date at which the Bill comes before your Lordships, but if your Lordships will be prepared to consider the Committee stage at an early date, and so become familiar with the provisions and details of the Bill, I think it will be desired that it should pass into law with the least possible delay.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
I am not sure that I understand the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack. I recognise the very sympathetic way in which he has spoken in answer to the observations of my noble friend, and he has always in all the speeches he has made from the Woolsack since he has been a member of your Lordships' House shown himself very forward to recognise the legitimate demands of your Lordships to have proper opportunity for the consideration of Bills. But the noble and learned Lord on the present occasion, although very sympathetic, did not quite answer my noble friend's question, because my noble friend asked him what steps the Government proposed to take with regard to the future progress of the Bill.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
I omitted to do that, although I think that the noble Marquess might have inferred an answer from what I did say. It is the intention of the Government to ask your Lordships to dispose of the matter before we part for Whitsun.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
Before we adjourn for the Whitsuntide recess?

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
Yes.