§ THE EARL OF MALMESBURY rose to call attention to the serious increase in the number of daring burglaries, thefts of motor cars, and robberies with violence reported in the Press; and to ask for information.
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, possibly there may be some members of your Lordship's House who will question the wisdom and expediency of raising a question which may seem unimportant at a moment when the time of Parliament is fully occupied in discussing important problems, and the time of your Lordship's House is so severely restricted. But I can assure your Lordships that nothing but the very gravest necessity and a real sense of seriousness would persuade me to occupy even a few minutes were I not convinced that possibly some good may be done by doing so. Having myself been to a regrettable extent a victim of burglary, not only has it given me a very great fellow-feeling for others, some of whom own well-known houses in this country, but, moreover, it has compelled me to take a closer interest in these matters, and—may I say?—to spend a more considerable time in the society of the Police.
§ It is a well-known fact that after nil great wars there is a period of lawlessness, which varies in degree according to the magnitude of the war. After the Thirty Years War we know that a period of lawlessness continued for a very long time; after the Napoleonic Wars the same thing went on for three or four years; and, within our own recollection, after the South African War there was a considerable period of lawlessness also. This war, which I believe will probably be called the greatest war the world has ever seen, has left in its train a wake of lawlessness which is not fully understood. In my Question you will notice that I have alluded merely to the reports which have appeared in the Press. Those of us—and I am afraid there are a great many of us—who have had occasion to go more deeply into the subject, know that the Press has not reported one-thousandth part of the crimes which have been committed.
§ Now, what are the causes of these crimes? The noble Lord who will reply 777 to this Question will probably find himself in agreement with me in this. First of all, men have undoubtedly become careless. They have risked their lives, and, provided they can see their way to having a good time, they are prepared to get what represents to them money and gain, even at the expense of breaking into houses or stealing that which does not belong to them. In spite of the writings of distinguished German soldiers and philosophers, it is generally admitted that war has a most demoralising effect on the community at large. Then there is the depletion of the Police Force: I propose to deal with that in a moment. There is the dislocation of employment, and, as a consequence, the temporary employment of men and women whose character is probably not above suspicion from the point of view of honesty. There are also the deserters; I mention that particularly because I shall recur to it.
§ There is another cause which, probably more than any other, is responsible for this increase of crime, and that is the invasion of aliens and undesirable characters from other countries as the result of the war. This is somewhat delicate ground, but, after all, it is true that we have had criminals from America and from distant parts of the Empire dumped into these islands in addition to those criminals who already inhabited it—we have had a considerable reinforcement of criminals, to use a military expression. And moreover, there have returned to us very large numbers of criminals who, because they were too well known in this country, had gone further afield, and the war has brought them back to us. Then there is the increased cost of living, which has given a very great temptation to people whose ideas of living were perhaps considerably above their means, and they were determined to improve it at all costs.
§ With regard to demobilisation, I think it is generally admitted that during the war the figures for crime dropped very considerably. I have noticed it stated frequently that civilian crime had enormously decreased during the war. But all of a sudden some months ago one began to notice an increase in crime with the signing of the Armistice. What struck me at once was—and I think I am correct—that the burglars and other professional gentlemen had demobilised themselves, or had been returned to civil life as pivotal 778 men. I believe the burglar's trade is a very skilled one, and perhaps the burglar got out of the Army as a skilled man, or was applied for by the Honourable Society of Burglars, or some kindred society. At any rate, the fact remains that the burglars and thieves were certainly very much at large in this country while policemen were still retained in the Army. What made it more serious was that a good deal of the time of the Police Force, already depleted, was taken up by making inquiries on behalf of the military authorities. One knows oneself, having served during the whole of the war, that when questions arose about men, excuses for leave, and so on, one always had to apply to the civil Police at home; therefore this depleted Police Force was taken up almost entirely by making inquiries on behalf of the military authorities instead of being able to attend to its civil duties.
§ There is another cause, of course—namely, that the Intelligence Branch of the Police Force in London and elsewhere was very largely transferred to overseas, France, and other parts; and these gangs—I am speaking more particularly of the skilled gangs—of burglars could move all over the country without being traced or watched, and without, any fear of discovery once they got out of the county where they had committed a robbery. In connection with, these robberies have been thefts of motor-cars,. and I believe the number of motor-cars stolen in the streets of London and elsewhere has been very considerable, and these cars have been used in connection with the burglaries to which I have already alluded. Then finally there is the kind of theft which has taken place from poor people—which I hope will commend the subject to your Lordships—attention; thefts in the way of robbing small shops, stealing the bicycles of working-men, and soon, which means that dishonesty generally has been enormously on the increase. I might say that this matter is one which is of interest not only to the so-called well-to-do, but it is also of vital importance to the poorer classes, because the thieves have not confined their activities to miniatures and plate, or to the rich collector; they have extended their activities (as in one case recently) to the lonely house of a lady who was not only robbed but murdered.
§ There is another aspect of this case which I might mention. I allude to the addi- 779 tional difficulty in finding houses under the conditions that have been already mentioned so often as being serious at the present time. Only the other day I heard from a friend of mine, in a neighbourhood not far from home, that although there were empty houses in that place it was impossible to get people to live there because they were too lonely. In one part of Wiltshire I believe there are a number of houses to let because people have vacated them owing to their becoming alarmed by the undesirable characters wandering about Salisbury Plain. Another cause has been that most of the reliable and able-bodied men were called up, and whole districts were denuded of their strong and intelligent manhood, practically the only males left being either very old men or boys.
§ It has been said that in the old days no well-conducted district was without its gibbet. I am not going to suggest to the noble Earl who will reply that these men should be strung up on a gibbet, because it might start a very unpleasant campaign. But I am going to suggest that very severe measures should be taken against these people on the information which no doubt the noble Earl possesses. I am not sure that I may not say that the trouble in Ireland is somewhat responsible for this lawlessness in England. I was told the other day that a man who was accused of stealing a bicycle had replied—and very suitably too: "I have to go to prison for stealing a bicycle, although I have been fighting for my country in France; whereas men in Ireland, who have not fought at all, are allowed to go free."
§ I think this practically covers the whole question of these burglaries, except the suggestions I shall respectfully submit. First of all, I should like to say that these various headings I have raised concern the whole of the Police Force and do not apply merely to the London Police or to the Provincial Police. I think I explained that to the noble Earl yesterday, or the day before, when I had a chance of a conversation with him; and I hope the point is quite clear. There is one thing, however, that I wish to say emphatically, and I should be sorry to conclude without saying it—namely, that until the war broke out and our Police Force was so sadly depleted, I do not suppose there was a finer Police Force in the world than ours. The Police Force of this country has 780 always been the admiration of the whole world, not only because of its intelligence but because of its good temper and efficiency. Consequently I do not wish to suggest that the Police Force is in any way responsible for the crimes I have mentioned. I think the state of affairs to which I have drawn attention is almost entirely due to the absence of the police.
§ Besides organising a special campaign against these people who so seriously disturb the whole country, I would suggest that the Police at Scotland Yard should have greater control over the Provincial Police so far as criminal investigation is concerned. I will tell your Lordships why I suggest this course. A friend of mine told me that he thought there was delay—he had suffered the same as myself, if not more so—owing to the fact that the Provincial Police were somewhat inclined to resent what they thought was undue interference with their duties, although it is really quite impossible for them to carry out their duties completely. For instance, if a gang of burglars steal a motor-car and use that motor-car for the purposes of committing a burglary in, say, Hampshire, Kent, Berkshire, or wherever it may be, they are out of the county in which they have committed the, burglary long before their crime is discovered; and the consequence is, as the criminals are merely passing through the county, the assistance which the local Constabulary are able to give is extremely small, and by the time you have got in touch with the detective department of that Constabulary you find that they can do nothing more than go to Scotland Yard. Therefore I respectfully suggest that Scotland Yard should be given some greater control over provincial Constabulary, and also that there should be some closer co-ordination generally between all the Police in this country. There is another thing which is a rather difficult subject to raise, because of course it is well known that the Provincial Police have different authorities over them. I refer to the provision of motor bicycles for the Police. In my own neighbourhood the Superintendent of Police asked me if I would interest myself in the matter, because he had only a rather ancient horse and a rather ancient cart, and therefore it took him a good deal of time to move about.
§ There is another matter on which, perhaps, the noble Earl will be able to give 781 me an assurance, and that is that policemen in the Array shall be demobilized as soon as possible. I was told the other day by a police official, that while he was trying to do all his work—and he did a good deal of work on behalf of the Army—with one or two constables, his police, were playing football. They were awaiting demobilization, and playing foot ball; and he said that, even if the demobilization papers had not got through, the authorities might let him have the men at once. No doubt that question will be dealt with, but I should like to see the police demobilized as soon as possible. After all, what is there to prevent the military authorities from training a special force of military police from among the men in the Army, and allowing the police to get away to their civil duties at home.
§ Only two more points, and I have done. The first is that no doubt a large number of these valuables are being taken abroad. They are being taken, I am told on the best authority, over to the Continent and to America. Therefore I respectfully suggest to the noble Earl who will reply to my Question that the ports of embarkation should be closely watched, and that thereby it should be made impossible for the thieves to get things out of this country. There again comes in a difficulty. I heard only the other day from a policeman, that he had to get into touch with the police at a particular port. That is a matter over which Scotland Yard should have control.
§ Finally there is a question of the receivers in London. I do not suppose there is any city in the world that has at this moment a larger number of undesirable people than London. They have been accustomed for so long to regard London as an asylum and pleasant place for hatching plots that they have increased in number, and a I great deal of the trouble which is going on to-day in this country is due to the evil influence of these people. Therefore I suggest, in conclusion., that all these receivers, who are probably well-known to the Police, should be carefully watched, and that nothing should be left undone whereby they may be detained. I do not suggest that anything has been left undone. As I said before, our Police Force has always been the finest in the world, but all the same the war has brought a great many undesirable people over here, of all nationalities. Therefore I am convinced that it would be a very good thing, and probably 782 bring something to light in regard to these burglaries and robberies of all sorts that have taken place, if these people were closely watched.
THE EARL OF JERSEYMy Lords, I observe that the noble Earl, in calling attention to this question, concludes the Notice on the Paper by asking for information. I think you will agree with me that this is a somewhat comprehensive request, and I may say that the noble Earl very courteously told me in advance of certain specific matters to which he proposed to refer. I am very much obliged to him for doing so, because it enables me to answer some of the points. I hope I may be able to do so to his satisfaction, but I think he will agree that it is quite impossible for me to deal in detail with every topic on which he has touched, in a reply of reasonable length. As regards the first point, in which he detailed what he considered to be the causes of the increase in the burglaries and thefts and robberies to which he refers, I agree with him that if you seek a remedy it is as well to consider the cause. But he will, I am sure, forgive me if I do not discuss those causes in detail.
I hope I may be able to reassure him on certain points. I will not suggest that he overlooks it, but I should like to emphasise one distinction which it is necessary to bear in mind in considering this question, and that is the fact that whereas certain of these matters, so far as they affect the metropolitan area, are under the direct control of the Home Office, in the counties these matters are under the control of the Standing Joint Committees and the Chief Constables of the counties. That must be borne in mind in considering a great many of the observations which the noble Earl has addressed to your Lordships. I understand that he himself has had the misfortune to be the victim of a burglary, and I am sure that all your Lordships sympathise most cordially with him in this misadventure, and that we appreciate the public spirit which prompts him to bring this matter forward, in the hope of saving others from meeting with a similar mishap.
I understand that the noble Earl refers to the metropolitan area as well as to the Police Force generally throughout the country. He apparently relies on the Press for his statement that there has been a serious increase in the dumber of burglaries. No doubt the Press has mentioned a great 783 many such cases recently; but may I suggest that it is not safe to rely upon this evidence, for this reason—that the prominence given in the Press to these matters varies from time to time. The Home Office have statistics for the metropolitan area only, but perhaps these may be taken roughly as an indication of the state of affairs in the rest of the country. These figures show that there has been an increase in the number of burglaries and thefts of motor-cars, but not of robberies with violence. This fact, perhaps, is not remarkable when we consider the conditions produced by the war and especially the depletion of the Police Force to which the noble Earl has referred. The increase, however, is not a serious one. The actual number of cases of house-breaking from September 1 to December 29, 1918, is greater than in the earlier years of the war, but it is less than in the pre-war year, and, though the figure has not reached its pro-war rate, the number of apprehensions has been greater both proportionately: and in the aggregate, which I think say much for the credit of the Metropolitan Police Force. The noble Earl, no doubt, has mainly in mind the Police Force in his own county, at any rate in country districts. Therefore, may I point out to him again that the Police Force in the counties is not under the control of the Home Secretary but is under that of the Standing Joint Committees, and any representation as to the inefficiency of the Force should be addressed to the Standing Joint Committee concerned.
I should like now to deal with some of the special points which the noble Earl raised. He rather suggested—I think he actually stated—that most of the Intelligence Police officers have been sent over to France, and that they have not yet been released. Possibly he has in mind the members of the Criminal Investigation Department who are specially concerned with the detection of crime in London. A very small proportion of these latter officers were sent over to France, and most of these have already returned to duty. I am very glad to note that the noble Earl pays a testimony, and a very well-deserved testimony, to the Police Force generally, and that he does not in any way think that the Police are lax in their attempt to trace criminals or that they do not care whether or not they succeed in doing so. This certainly is not true as regards London, and the facts which 784 I have mentioned show that the number of arrests for house-breaking has risen since the war. I am sure your Lordships will agree that the London Police Force possesses a body of officers highly skilled in the detection of crime and under very able officers, and that there is really no reason to think that they have shown any falling off in keenness or in energy. If the noble Earl has in his mind a provincial Force, the matter should be taken up with the Standing Joint Committee of the county concerned. The noble Earl, I think, complained somewhat of a want of co-operation between the various Police Forces, and he also suggested that Scotland Yard does little or nothing to promote co-operation between the various provincial Police Forces.
THE EARL OF MALMESBURYMay I interrupt the noble Earl? I did not suggest that Scotland Yard did nothing to bring about co-operation. What I meant to convey, and what I thought I had conveyed, was that the power which Scotland Yard had over the provincial Constabulary was comparatively small, that time was lost, and that the power of Scotland Yard should be increased.
THE EARL OF JERSEYI am sorry I misunderstood the noble Earl. I should like to say that it is believed that under the present administration, that of Mr. Basil Thomson, there is much greater co-operation between the London and provincial Police Forces than there used to be. New Scotland Yard is inconstant communication with the provincial Police. Forces by telegraph, by telephone, by letter, and by the circulation of the Police Gazette, and the provincial Forces have shown great willingness to help in every way. The provincial Forces now issue any undetected cases on forms provided for the purpose and the Metropolitan Police are often able to make suggestions as to the identity of a criminal from the information given as to his manner of operating or his appearance.
The noble Earl went on to make a few suggestions which he thought would promote efficiency and assist in the detection of criminals and the diminution of the various crimes to which he refers. I think that the first point he raised was that of demobilisation. I am informed that representations to the effect that it is desirable that this should be expedited have been made and are constantly being 785 made, and that every possible measure is being taken to secure that the police should be returned to the Force at the earliest possible date. He also suggested that it would be desirable that they should be provided with motor bicycles, especially in the country districts. I entirely agree with the noble Earl. But there, again, it is a matter which can only be dealt with by the Standing Joint Committees of the counties concerned. He further added that he thought it very desirable that the ports should be watched so as to detect any attempt to remove stolen goods out of the country. The ports are, as a matter of fact, most carefully watched at the present time by the aliens officers, and I am sure that there is no lack of zeal or of effort on the part of those officers to detect any criminals who are attempting to leave this country. The noble Earl also dealt with the question of receivers. As we can well imagine receivers are very difficult to trace, but every effort is made to identify them, and, when they are detected and apprehended, to take suitable action in dealing with them.
I think I have touched on almost every point which the noble Earl raised, but I do not know if I have been able to do so entirely to his satisfaction. There is one other suggestion which he made, and that was that much more drastic measures should be taken when the criminals are detected. That, I think, is a very large question, which would no doubt require special legislation, and I venture to submit that it is a little bit outside the Question which appears on the Paper. The noble Earl will forgive me if I do not discuss that matter now. In conclusion, I will say that it is, of course, very easy to make statements I do not suggest that the noble Earl made such statements—that the Police are not doing all they should, that they are lax, and that these burglaries ought not to be allowed to continue; but it is very difficult to refute them unless one knows specifically on what evidence they are based. If there are any particular cases which the noble Earl has in his mind, or which he has had brought to his notice, I shall be very pleased to transmit them to the proper authorities if he cares to inform me of them.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, the value of these debates is, I think, this—that a noble Earl, like my noble friend Lord Malmesbury, who has 786 made himself acquainted with matters which pertain to a difficult question of this kind, is able to make suggestions which lead to an answer from the Government and to the ventilation of the subject in all parts of the country. The suggestions as to the treatment of receivers and the better equipment of provincial Police Forces are of the kind that I have mentioned. There is one particular suggestion made by my noble friend which I should have ventured to urge more particularly on the noble Earl who represents the Home Office. It is the suggestion that the demobilisation of policemen should be expedited. The noble Earl opposite representing the Home Office said, in reply, that he was informed that the matter had been urged upon the necessary authorities on several occasions. I am afraid this did not give me much comfort, and I do not suppose that it pave my noble friend very much comfort. It is a reply, my noble friend opposite will allow me to say, which is one that I have heard very often, and which I am afraid means next to nothing. No doubt it has been urged upon the authorities, but the authorities in the matter of demobilisation are very hard to move; and the reason is obvious. The business of demobilisation is an extremely difficult and complicated one, and it is very hard upon those who are responsible for it that they should be called upon to make special arrangements in special cases. Therefore they always give, a civil answer and pay no attention to the matter whatever. There, I am afraid, the matter must rest unless the cases are very special.
What I suggest to the noble Earl and to the Government is that this is not only a special case but a very special case. These policemen,. who were enlisted for the purposes of the war, are absolutely useless in their present position and immensely required in their civil capacity. The Police Forces throughout the country have been depleted. These trained men who are in khaki have nothing to do. They have no Germans to fight; they are not even occupying foreign countries. What they are doing, according to my noble friend, is kicking about a football. I do think when we are dealing, especially in these times, with the peace and good order of our country, that a very special effort should be made to get back the police. I am glad the Under-Secretary of State for War has just entered the House, because it is to him that my remarks ought 787 to be addressed. We are anxious to help my noble friend who represents the Home Office in pressing upon the War Office that policemen in khaki should be demobilised as quickly as possible, and I venture to represent that my noble friend Lord Malmesbury is well advised in urging this upon the Government. The policemen in the Army are doing no particular good there, and they are greatly wanted in the counties. What I would urge on my noble friend Lord Peel, who is very influential in a matter of this kind, is that he should do his very best to get these policemen returned to the Force. I do not suppose there ever has been a time when policemen were more required, or, I should say, may be more required, and I think no time should be lost in carrying out the request of my noble friend.